To fear teen daughter retreating into male identity

[ladyslattern]

My 15 yo dd had a terrible lockdown. She started a silly competition to stay indoors and basically spent it PJs in her room watching Netflix, her sleep reversed do she was up all night cooking and eating cakes. My oh and I are both health service key workers busier than ever at work. She did her school work and said she was in touch with friends but we now know later dwindled. Her friendship group was getting large and a bit toxic (she says) prior to lockdown. Her best friend has left and joined another group and doesn't really talk to her now. She's feeling that whilst she always has someone to sit with at school lunch no one now chooses her first. She sometimes gets scared that the group will entirely split and she will be left floudering.
She put on a lot of weight and none of her clothes fit so she's thrown them all away. She was a curvy 12 prior to lockdown but is now a size 16. She can't find any teen clothes to fit her so she's started buying huge jumpers and baggy jeans that she's calling her 'Dad' look. She's got long blonde curly hair which is hugely high maintenance (effing curly girl method!) but she now wants a mullet. She says social media is full of images of skinny girls and she feels like she can't compete. She's started saying that she intends to start presenting as a boy and wonders if it would be best to be a trans boy after her 'Dad look' got praised at non uniform day and online. She said jokingly that everyone wants a trans bestie.
What I see with crystal clarity is that the pressure of trying to compete with the slim girls, the pressure of teen friendships and anxiety about the future are making her consider becoming male. She has NEVER before this had even the slightest whiff of uncertainty about her gender and has always imagined a 'conventional' future as a woman. I'm pretty gender non conforming and she's always been more 'girly' than I am. If she gets into online trans community echo chambers she'll be put on a path to potentially irreversible medications etc and I will be seen as the enemy if I don't encourage her to be trans and don't I know how many trans kids take their lives if they're not accepted. She's at risk of becoming one of the 3000% (or whatever it is) increase in girls saying they're trans.

Lol at the outrage at staying up and baking cakes. Unless I’m missing something and ‘baking cakes’ is slang for cutting meth then it could be a helluva lot worse right!?!?
Op. Stay calm. Every girl in my high school except the really Barbie-girl hot ones (that had their on shit going on) dressed in a ‘dad look’. I know the pressures are amplified by social media and the gender zeitgeist is different but you reminding her about critical thinking, loads of love and a monitored internet access combined with comedy nights/fun times with you and the family will cure this I feel sure. Forget the weight. Any comment on that is counter productive and exposes the lie that it’s what’s inside that counts.

I went through the same thing for about a year when I was younger due to my body hair, I've got a lot, figured it would just be easier to be a boy but it wasn't me and I grew out of thinking like that naturally

If she was up all night and then asleep during the day she is possibly vitamin d deficient. Which might play a role in her self confidence, there are some studies out that have shown a link.

It is a reasonably easy fix and won’t do any harm.

Being a teenager is hard, especially if you don’t fully fit in. I still feel slightly panicked going into the work canteen that no-one will sit with me, which is a hang over from school days. What helped me way finding my own path (physics geek!) which became easier and easier as I got older as I found more people like me.

Apart from baking, what are her interests? Does she know what she wants to do for uni/ after? Giving her a forward goal might help.

Good luck with everything!

My DD, also 15, is in a large friendship group of 14 and 8 of them have decided that they're either lesbian or trans. The statistics just don't add up. Only a very, very tiny percentage of the population are truly trans, not more than half!

My DD had really short hair from the age of 9-13, and everyone thought she was a boy - annoyed the crap out of her and she was constantly called names (lesbian, tranny etc.). Fortunately, my DD has a quiet confidence about her and just ignored it. On the hair front, just let her have her hair how she wants. I was constantly telling my daughter how ridiculous the name-callers were being, since an awful lot of older adult women have short hair - both her grandmas, for example, have very short hair!

She's just had a massive argument with one of her 'trans' friends who was slagging off straight, heterosexual people. Apparently, calling someone 'cis-het' is a horrible term of abuse for normal straight people. My DD called her out on it and said she felt like her friend was slagging her off personally, since my DD is 'cis-het' i.e. a normal heterosexual female. Her friend then said she was allowed to call straight, heterosexual people whatever she wanted because they'd not been oppressed like she had as a trans person! I do wonder quite how much 'oppression' this friend has suffered at the age of 15, when she's only been 'trans' for a few months.

I think the whole trans thing is making many of our teenagers go a bit barmy - at a minimum they seem very confused about it all.

Sounds like lots of issues going on here. Social media is doing so much harm to children, and there’s not much parents can do about it at this age.
Could you start setting internet limits? Go for walks? Have family evenings?
It sounds like she can confide in you which is amazing, I’m sure you’re doing as much as you can already.
Social media is sadly so harmful for children and as a mother of 3 girls I worry for their future because of it.

I would monitor her internet use very closely, and have lots of honest conversations about friendships and bodies and self-acceptance. Get her into a reading challenge, maybe? It's rough when everyone has loads of time on their hands and kids that age can be very introspective anyway, so I would give her a lot of encouragement to just talk everything through with you - but NOT with 'kind' strangers on the internet. I recommend Abigail Shrier's book 'Irreversible Damage' which explores the issues your DD is struggling with. Good luck to you both.

Your poor daughter. I wonder whether she's taken a look at some porn and been horrified at what a woman is supposed to look like and what a woman is supposed to enjoy doing. That's what happened to a friend's daughter. The weight may be a subconscious way of saying no to all that pornified sexualisation.

What she needs is feminism. You may laugh, but understanding how and why society pressures women to behave and look a certain way is really liberating. It saved me and lots of other teenage girls back in the 70s and 80s. For me the book that made all the difference was The Female Eunuch by Germaine Greer, which was readable and shocking and made me realise why I felt I didn't fit in and why I felt there was no place for me. You might like to google Jane Claire Jones, a feminist philosopher who's running online courses in feminism and has written lots of interesting stuff. And of course, when you're a feminist you get to meet and talk to all kinds of interesting women — so you find your tribe.

Good luck to you her.

Forget the weight. Any comment on that is counter productive and exposes the lie that it’s what’s inside that counts I think you might be confusing two different things. Personality and character and personal qualities are more important for many people than physical attributes. But having the right weight for your size is important for health, balancing hormones (which then impacts on feelings and your state of mind), feeling good in your body etc. Two different things.

jogs not jobs

Bobcat2020. I am sure OP feels upset as it is and doesn't need you lecturing on your high morale step. Lots of people do it on here. Must be so wonderful to be a perfect parent of a child that has no issues. You dont know what is like until you have been there. I love to post for advice on here but know I would be told what a crap parent I am.

My dd is 13 and she's been saying the same. As her mum, I know she doesn't really feel this way and is just wanting to fit in and create a bit of drama, but of course I just "don't get it"

Thing is, in her group, there are maybe 10 girls and more than half of them say that they're either non binary, gender fluid or trans. I am not anti any of these things, but I just don't believe that it is now so common.

One of her friends is now a "they" and I think she wanted me to react negatively when she told me, but I didn't. The next day she said that she herself has actually always been confused about her gender (she hasn't) and if I have a problem with that, then I'm bigoted. Again, looking for some reaction from me.

Right now, I'm treading carefully. If I thought for a second she was genuinely struggling, I would support her all the way. I'm actually in the LGBT community myself and I know what it's like having truly bigoted parents, but she just wants to fit in. Nothing more, nothing less.

They're real identities, but right now, it's also a trend and I genuinely think it's becoming dangerous.

OP, I would definitely monitor what your dd is looking at online. Controversial at her age maybe, but I still would.

I agree with those who say she doesn't sound like she thinks she is trans, she is just trying to find an image she can cope with. Nothing wrong with wearing baggy clothes. Mullets are very in in the alternative hair world- theres a hashtag on instagram called mulletMonday or something and there are some absolutely stunning modern type mullets which are very feminine and nothing like the 70s ones. (not saying that there is anything wrong with wanting a more "masculine" one, but that if she is looking for a way to manage her hair, she doesn't have to automatically think it means conforming to a different gender stereotype).
Regarding the emotional eating, there is a book called Fifty Ways to Self Soothe Without Food. You could get it for her without mentioning her weight, focusing more on becoming emotionally healthy. Even say the whole family needs to learn from it. Don't focus on her losing weight, she needs to believe she is acceptable and loveable as she is. Then she can choose to lose weight if she wants to.
She sounds like a lovely, witty, clever girl and she can learn to feel better about herself

Sounds like she's lacking in confidence due to being overweight, combined with lockdown and general teen issues.
She sounds sensible though, and like you have a good relationship.
I think she needs to (a) realise that these friendship issues are normal and will get better in a year or 2 and (b) realise that her weight is not the be all and end all. Ideally she needs to lose weight, but losing weight whilst you have low self esteem is very hard. If she can develop self confidence in her personality and talents, whilst being overweight, she will feel happier as well as finding weight loss easier. Perhaps she needs to have screen time limited and be encouraged to find something constructive to do?

What an awful situation OP. I feel so terribly sorry for teenage girls these days, it makes being a teenage girl in the noughties look like a breeze - and lockdown will have been disastrous for any but the most robust teenagers. I watched 'The Social Dilemma' on Netflix the other day (think I may be late to the party) and although they didn't mention the trans issue, I found some striking observations which related to it. As it's a 'cool' documentary perhaps you and your daughter could watch it together (if she hasn't already!) - it might be a useful thing to encourage her to think critically about what she reads online, and would arm you for future discussions if, as you fear, she falls down a Tumblr-inspired rabbit hole.

@johnsnowmemo Yes, I mistyped to be honest. What I meant was commenting on weight would confirm for HER (as in the DD) that her weight is the issue, that thinness is happiness and thinness means she can be feminine again. I have never known a mother commenting or ‘helping’ with a teen daughters weight go well. It’s often perceived as criticism and causes more loss of self esteem. I quite agree with you and I see health and to some extent weight loss as separate from image and diet culture. I v much like Molly Forbes on this.

My eldest dd (16) has been going through this for 2 years. She now identifies as trans and wants they/them pronouns. She’s also changed her name. She isn’t trans at all she just doesn’t want to conform to the female ideals portrayed on SM but of course I am just an old bigot who doesn’t understand as far as she’s concerned. Every thing has been announced with much drama and flouncing, at first I sort of tried to gently suggest that perhaps trans was a big leap but that was met with an almighty tantrum so now I just accept with a “that’s nice dear” which she hates because it doesn’t give her the reaction she wanted. I hate tumblr, it’s completely fed this awful negative oppressed persona she has and like a pp’s daughters friend she feels entitled to call others all kind of horrible offensive names like transphobic, cis-het etc because she’s “been so oppressed” all these years despite having experienced zero oppression. Sorry op, I don’t have much advice apart from you’re right to fear the SM influence. If I believed for one second my dd was actually trans I would back her 100% but as her mum I know she isn’t, it’s just popular to identify as something other than straight/non trans.

Sounds like she's finding support she feels she needs. Kids go through phases. Embrace her individuality. If she decides to trans its her decision but I think you're over thinking things as they stand at the moment.

@Prettybubblesintheair tumblr is so dangerous. 10 yeas ago dd2 fell down the rabbit hole of that generation- self harm. Fortunately it was relatively ‘easy’ to divert her by pointing out the harm engaging with and affirming such obviously harmful behaviour, whereas being non binary or trans isn’t seen as harmful (and often isn’t)

She sounds more depressed and socially isolated than potentially trans. People do not put themselves through operations and take artificial hormones so that they can either have an excuse to hide their body under shapeless clothing, or appear more interesting to people who don’t even like them.

Hi, as someone closer to her age I think you shouldn't worry about the dad look. Many times I jokingly say I dress like a preteen boy (mom jeans big jumpers sneakers). Being uncomfortable with your body makes you second guess a lot of things. Ask her is someone said something to her online to make her feel bad (you wouldn't believe the things teens say behind a screen with a fake account).. Lastly, check billie eilish and this Instagram account instagram.com/hijabi.streetwear?igshid=q75fqrv3jdu0

I know she's not a hijabi but in both examples there are girls with baggy clothes and a more unisex look. She doesn't have to be a barbie to be a proud young woman don't let patriarchy and bad friends confuse her like that x

If it were me, I would frame it to your daughter as ‘lockdown has been really shit and stressful for most people. Learning to cook and bake are great skills and you were trying to keep yourself occupied when you could do little else, so good for you. However, it’s not healthy to put on lots of weight and you’re not happy, so let’s address the weight. By the way, absolutely LOADS of people have put on weight recently- this is just a temporary thing, it doesn’t define you, it’s not your ‘new identity’, you’re still beautiful. (Show her pictures of beautiful plus size models on Instagram). You can lose the weight sensibly over the next six months and will be back to your normal size and feeling much better’

In terms of losing weight, I think slimming world welcome teenagers (there have certainly been some teenage girls at my class). It would be good for you both to go along, meet lots of friendly women of all sizes (she’ll be one of the smaller ones!) and help build a separate tribe of supportive older women outside of school.

I think avoid the topic of trans identity. Once she’s lost the weight I’m sure she’ll forget about it.

Can you encourage her into team sport? It’s an instant group of friends and a healthy lifestyle. I would have really struggled as a teenager without it. It can really help to build confidence.

ffks how many times can actual science tell people this.you dont need to tackle her weight.she isnt like this because is is larger.she is like this through shit self esteem and pushing any weight loss talk will only make that spiral and actually make her gain more or become more unhealthy.fact.you need to tackle her health as in how she feels.her self esteem her confidence her life feels in a mess to her.help her find herself again.her health/weight etc comes when that does.

@SoupDragon

Why are people harping on about the midnight baking? How do you propose the OP goes back and changes that? Do you have a time machine? 🙄

OP It doesn't sound like your DD is trans at all - she just doesn't want to fell she has to conform to the "skinny girl" thing and thinks it will make her interesting to people who would then want to be her friend. It doesn't sound like she actually wants to be male.

DD (14) wears her brothers' hoodys a lot of the time and prefers what we call a "Billy eilish" look. Mullets are "in" I think. Actress Maisie Williams has one (It popped up on my newsfeed once!) and there were other celebrity mullets too. They aren't a "boy" thing.

I was in Brighton a few weeks ago and felt liked I'd stepped back into the 90s and grunge was a thing. Every other teen seemed to be wearing baggy tees, jumpers or sweats, sometimes with a check shirt on top, beanie hats, Converse or biker boots and sporting a mullet.

I saw one girl with a curly mullet shaved right back at the sides and behind her ears in a massive fade, and it looked fantastic tbh. The tips of her hair were dyed a fabulous teal shade.

Fashion may be a big part of this, and she's trying stuff out to see where she feels she fits. Tbh, I'd be happier with a teen embracing grunge than wanting fake tan, lip fillers and microbladed brows.

The "trans bestie" thing really sounds to me like she's a bit lonely atm, because her friendship group has dispersed, and she just wants to find a place where she feels that she belongs and is valued. And it seems almost like some kind of rite of passage for teen girls at the moment.

So many friends and colleagues have had daughters go through a phase of wanting to transition, followed by changing their sexual preferences as often as their nail polish, it's almost like it's the latest teen craze.

And tbh I'm not sure that's wholly a bad thing. I'd far rather kids experiment and find out what they really are sexually than go through the thing so many of my contemporaries did, (I'm 65) assume they were straight and then realise otherwise after they'd married a man and had children with him. They mostly waited until they were in their 40s to come out as gay/bi and mostly regret not doing it decades earlier.

@Strawberry4561

If it were me, I would frame it to your daughter as ‘lockdown has been really shit and stressful for most people. Learning to cook and bake are great skills and you were trying to keep yourself occupied when you could do little else, so good for you. However, it’s not healthy to put on lots of weight and you’re not happy, so let’s address the weight. By the way, absolutely LOADS of people have put on weight recently- this is just a temporary thing, it doesn’t define you, it’s not your ‘new identity’, you’re still beautiful. (Show her pictures of beautiful plus size models on Instagram). You can lose the weight sensibly over the next six months and will be back to your normal size and feeling much better’

In terms of losing weight, I think slimming world welcome teenagers (there have certainly been some teenage girls at my class). It would be good for you both to go along, meet lots of friendly women of all sizes (she’ll be one of the smaller ones!) and help build a separate tribe of supportive older women outside of school.

I think avoid the topic of trans identity. Once she’s lost the weight I’m sure she’ll forget about it.

absolute bullshit and the worst thing yuo can to for anyone never mind a young girls health and wellbeing.bull shit.