To fear teen daughter retreating into male identity

[ladyslattern]

My 15 yo dd had a terrible lockdown. She started a silly competition to stay indoors and basically spent it PJs in her room watching Netflix, her sleep reversed do she was up all night cooking and eating cakes. My oh and I are both health service key workers busier than ever at work. She did her school work and said she was in touch with friends but we now know later dwindled. Her friendship group was getting large and a bit toxic (she says) prior to lockdown. Her best friend has left and joined another group and doesn't really talk to her now. She's feeling that whilst she always has someone to sit with at school lunch no one now chooses her first. She sometimes gets scared that the group will entirely split and she will be left floudering.
She put on a lot of weight and none of her clothes fit so she's thrown them all away. She was a curvy 12 prior to lockdown but is now a size 16. She can't find any teen clothes to fit her so she's started buying huge jumpers and baggy jeans that she's calling her 'Dad' look. She's got long blonde curly hair which is hugely high maintenance (effing curly girl method!) but she now wants a mullet. She says social media is full of images of skinny girls and she feels like she can't compete. She's started saying that she intends to start presenting as a boy and wonders if it would be best to be a trans boy after her 'Dad look' got praised at non uniform day and online. She said jokingly that everyone wants a trans bestie.
What I see with crystal clarity is that the pressure of trying to compete with the slim girls, the pressure of teen friendships and anxiety about the future are making her consider becoming male. She has NEVER before this had even the slightest whiff of uncertainty about her gender and has always imagined a 'conventional' future as a woman. I'm pretty gender non conforming and she's always been more 'girly' than I am. If she gets into online trans community echo chambers she'll be put on a path to potentially irreversible medications etc and I will be seen as the enemy if I don't encourage her to be trans and don't I know how many trans kids take their lives if they're not accepted. She's at risk of becoming one of the 3000% (or whatever it is) increase in girls saying they're trans.

The thing I find tragic is I dressed exactly like that from 12 to 16. It was just a phase. Its about feeling uncomfortable with how your body is becoming adult, and not wanting childhood to end.

Please dont let her fall down the rabbit hole...

I would keep reiterating that females can dress/do/be anything they like, they are still fe,ale, and nothing will change that.

Let her get the hair cut. Maybe try and encourage some healthy eating and exercise - walking, cycling, anything she’ll do with you or family or friends (lockdown rules permitting).

Show her examples of females who don’t look like stereotypical females. Remind her she has more good qualities than just her looks.

Monitor internet access.

Why did you let your DD stay up all night cooking and eating cakes? You're her parent, do your job. Saying that you're busy at work is just an excuse for allowing your daughter to slip through the cracks and develop a poor body image as a result of her weight gain and changes in her social circles. She is using this Dad look to cover over her poor body image that has happened in the first place because you let her develop poor eating and sleeping habits. I would spend some time helping her develop healthier habits that will make her feel better in herself in the long term.

I'd let her go with it, but encourage exercise and get all screens out of her room!

The fact that she said everyone wants a trans bestie stands out for me.
Is she doing this for attention and to get the friends that she can’t get as herself ?

Screens out of rooms is a great idea. Also no baking at night! Better routine, more exercise and healthier choices, not just food-wise!

@PamDemic, did you let your 15 year old DD stay up all night eating cakes and cooking? The fact that any parent would consider this anything other than bad parenting is baffling to me.

I’d just keep telling her she can wear what she wants, present however she wants, but this looks like low-level depression and lockdown stress to me. And encourage her to exercise, eat more healthily, buy her some nice clothes in her new size (not super girly and definitely loose). She will come out of it.

I think you’re right to be concerned. It does sound like a need for friends is at the root of this.
I know she’s a bit old for this level of direction but can you encourage her to take up an active hobby where she might meet new people?

don't I know how many trans kids take their lives if they're not accepted.

Contrary to the message put out by trans-promoting organisations, the number of trans idenrifying children who take their own live is actually very small. Tavistock (the gender identity clinic) found it is no higher than for any other group seen by camhs. Don't believe the 'affirmation or die' lie. Appart from anything else transitioning in adults increases risk of suicide.

Please stop @BobCat2020, this is neither the time nor the place.
@ladyslattern I would hate to be a teen girl right now. It must be so confusing. The be what you want to be rhetoric alongside young women pouting and sticking out their arses on Instagram has, narrowed the world for girls. You either look like a barbie doll or you transition. They are trying to find where they fit into the world. Being female shouldn't be about your figure, lipstick and hairstyle. All you can do is show her positive female role models who don't conform to the girlie stereotype. If there is a possibility that she is gay, let her know this is fine, just in case this is the driver.

Try not to worry about her "dad look" comment is my first point, she is struggling deal with that and then reevaluate where you are. You need to get her into a healthy lifestyle to improve her self esteem, so a good sleep schedule, healthy meals (not a harsh diet but low enough calories to start to reduce her weight), exercise and to meet new people in the longer run away from school (hard at the moment). The trans stuff may go away once she has body and mind confidence again.

ladyslattern you are clearly highly perceptive and very aware. I'm seeing the same thing emerging in young uni students.
I found your post generally very measured and observant up to a certain point, so I hope you don't mind me saying:
If she gets into online trans community echo chambers she'll be put on a path to potentially irreversible medications etc and I will be seen as the enemy if I don't encourage her to be trans and don't I know how many trans kids take their lives if they're not accepted. She's at risk of becoming one of the 3000% (or whatever it is) increase in girls saying they're trans. is the point at which your love and fear rather heads towards catastrophising.

I don't blame you, am just trying to remind you that there are other outcomes and because you have such good insight it isn't so black or white.
I have reorganized part of your sentence to this: If she gets into online trans community echo chambers she'll potentially be put on a path to -potentially- irreversible medications etc and I will be seen as the enemy if I don't -encourage- accept her presentation -her to be- as trans.

If she does head hard and fast, I would suggest supportive counseling to support the stress of the changes she seeks to make.
IME of others receiving this they will without setting it up as an agenda help her explore the difference between genuinely feeling in the wrong body, and needing to be in a body perceived as more accepted.

BTW your daughter sounds like a chip of her mum's block and very smart. try not to panic.

@PamDemic has some really useful suggestions and insights. It IS a rabbit hole, and your daughter sounds depressed (for various very good reasons).

Could some diversionary tactic work? Something to move her on from focussing on her looks/gender identity? Something to look forward to? Does she have any cerebral talents/interests, eg writing, maths, art, blogging, photography, animals, history, science, etc, that she could reaally start focusing on and making her identity, rather than all this focus on looks? It’s a horrible age, with loads of pressures, and the pandemic makes things worse. FWIW I (privately) thought I was a gay man trapped in a woman’s body at that age - (Coz I couldn’t compete, went to a girls school so didn’t know any boys, but mostly because I really fancied one particular 1960s dead gay author) - laugh out loud at that now! - and thank fuck before the trans movement/internet chat rooms. Ps I got through it by putting all my focus onto obscure “cool” music (as in my record collection, haha). Good good luck Op.

Somewhat missing the point but mullets and baggy clothes are fashionable currently

Bobcat2020 you are apparently unaware that many of our 'health service key workers' who are also parents have been put in terrible positions as they battle to save many of us in intolerable conditions while trying to keep parenting in lockdown and are spread far to thinly at everything. This is one of the many hidden costs of the way everything has been handled and our health service workers and there families are paying a disproportionate price and suffering great damage.
The luxury to parent the way they would normally or like to is no longer theirs.
I'm a HD hospital inpatient (not Covid) seeing first hand desperate medical staff trying not to get caught trying to get their children to bed via phone and text with one hand while physically working on me and others, understaffed and overwhelmed.
Now is absolutely not the time to be criticizing their inability to magically be super humanly all things to all people that they are responsible for!

Teen parent here thinking my DD could have fallen that way. Secure friendships really help get through those years, even if they are a promise in the future at university. We're acknowling 2020 is tough but glad you are not in another year (say first year uni) so have someone to be 'better than' .
Trying to shift DD from baking to cooking.
For feminine, curvy teens, embrace the 1950s look bound to be a grungy shop in the student area of your nearest city.
Watch a lot of films together.
Think about watching Orlando with Tilda Swinton, I find this inspiring about how during my lifetime I can change, embrace different jobs, different looks, different ways to be me but it has a trans element. This showed DD I wasn't a trans hostile despite my refusal to write to the school to withdraw JKs books!
I am struggling a little to keep DD on a 'normal' turbulent teen path, also frightened by the trans chat rooms.

My dd is really into all this stuff now and i dont let her stay up all night. Its all out there on the internet and tbh its swimming against the tide. I just hope ive done enough groundwork that she continues to think critically and comes out unscathed the other side

One of my teens dressed like that at that age. Was very slightly overweight, but nothing too much, so did have a choice in what style of clothes would fit. I made no comments whatsoever about clothes choice. Now in her early 20s and very slim, she still prefers that look. In her case, she just likes loose, comfortable, practical clothes. The same with hairstyles - she wants something practical. Your daughter sounds depressed and fed up and is worried about her friendship group and probably her weight. These are the things that need looking at, not her clothes.

Take her to some non-conformist places like Brighton, Glasgow, Glastonbury. She can see people come in all shapes and sizes and there is no need to change herself fundamentally to ‘fit in’. Teenage alienation is completely normal.

She sounds great and also very self aware. What also leapt out from your post @ladyslattern is how much she’s telling you. That level of openness and communication is fantastic and I’d prioritise not losing that. Let her cut her hair. That and the clothes aren’t unusual and if she has some agency and power in how she looks she’s less likely to fall down the rabbit hole.
you sound like a lovely mum.

The problem here is her weight. Shes put a lot on. Can you suggest going for a job with her in the morning's and your husband takes her for a walk at night? She shouldn't be up all night, that's terrible for her body clock. Stop buying junk and baking ingredients, she should not be baking and eating cakes at night. She needs to talk to her friends when shes at home, it's good for her mental health. Encourage her to call them for 5 minutes. I hope she starts feeling better about herself soon.

*Jog

I'm sorry but I can't get past the part where you state that she stayed up at night making cakes!
My dd is 19 and she had to return home early from uni and found lockdown really tough. She put on weight, was miserable and I helped her through it all (and yes, I worked throughout lockdown)
I can't imagine just sitting back and watching my dd put on so much weight, surely you must have realised the effect this would have on her self esteem etc particularly once she returned to school?