To fear teen daughter retreating into male identity

[ladyslattern]

My 15 yo dd had a terrible lockdown. She started a silly competition to stay indoors and basically spent it PJs in her room watching Netflix, her sleep reversed do she was up all night cooking and eating cakes. My oh and I are both health service key workers busier than ever at work. She did her school work and said she was in touch with friends but we now know later dwindled. Her friendship group was getting large and a bit toxic (she says) prior to lockdown. Her best friend has left and joined another group and doesn't really talk to her now. She's feeling that whilst she always has someone to sit with at school lunch no one now chooses her first. She sometimes gets scared that the group will entirely split and she will be left floudering.
She put on a lot of weight and none of her clothes fit so she's thrown them all away. She was a curvy 12 prior to lockdown but is now a size 16. She can't find any teen clothes to fit her so she's started buying huge jumpers and baggy jeans that she's calling her 'Dad' look. She's got long blonde curly hair which is hugely high maintenance (effing curly girl method!) but she now wants a mullet. She says social media is full of images of skinny girls and she feels like she can't compete. She's started saying that she intends to start presenting as a boy and wonders if it would be best to be a trans boy after her 'Dad look' got praised at non uniform day and online. She said jokingly that everyone wants a trans bestie.
What I see with crystal clarity is that the pressure of trying to compete with the slim girls, the pressure of teen friendships and anxiety about the future are making her consider becoming male. She has NEVER before this had even the slightest whiff of uncertainty about her gender and has always imagined a 'conventional' future as a woman. I'm pretty gender non conforming and she's always been more 'girly' than I am. If she gets into online trans community echo chambers she'll be put on a path to potentially irreversible medications etc and I will be seen as the enemy if I don't encourage her to be trans and don't I know how many trans kids take their lives if they're not accepted. She's at risk of becoming one of the 3000% (or whatever it is) increase in girls saying they're trans.

Could you exercise together? Might help boost her mood and health and remind her that her body can be strong at any size.

And yy to send her to Glasgow for Uni. Amazing cheap city where all the students look like her with a healthy dose of ‘get tae feck’ scepticism around the more extreme tribes our poor young kids can fall into.

Much of that sounds like aV pretty standard lockdown for most.
Competition to stay in and watch netflix? Well noone could go out and many lounged about in pjs watching netflix. Hardly stupid just following rules.
Weight gain? Many gained weight.
I think you are getting ahead of yourself with the trans stuff. Good on your dd for recognising that girls are u der too much pressire to stay slim and conform to beauty standards....she's absolutely right. Better than hankering after lip fillers and the perfect insta body.
Keep an eye on the weight but size 16 isnt too bad....not ideal but the average size in the uk.
Only panic if she definately wants to be trans! Not sure if panic is even the right word but don't catastrophise yet.

under*

I don't see what is wrong with politely questioning why she is allowed to stay up all night eating cakes. She's 15. Apart from anything else, in my house anyway, that would disturb everyone else so not be acceptable for that reason alone.
The trans issue is something else, not completely unrelated, but it does seem that she might be crying out for some sort of guidance and a bit of a steer on many things.

Tish at all the judgy posters about the baking. There wasn’t exactly a plethora of amazing activities this summer- no ncs, no jobs, no festivals not even bevies in the park. You’ve kept the conversation going @ladyslattern! That’s amazing and would have been so easy to lose if you’d come down hard on the baking.

I’m not sure I agree with the ‘let her cut her hair’. Not that you can stop her, of course, but I think The Haircut can be seen as a massive step into an ‘identity’, and then it’s harder to withdraw from all that.

She sounds depressed and anxious about her friendship group. Perhaps the cake-eating was emotional eating? Talk to her about the future, how friendship groups change eg at uni, how you felt at a similar age.

I’d also subtly try to help her lose some weight and hopefully regain some confidence.

I would put the trans issue to one side and focus on helping her get back to a curvy size 12.

Sometimes when we are really worried about something and feel it is beyond our control, we push the focus onto to something else in a bid to make the other thing go away.

Her best friend 'leaving' her must have really hurt and made her feel she doesn't have control in her life. Then she has been comfort eating and now she is terrified that she is overweight and will never be in control of anything ever again.

I think you need to help her unwind recent events and giving her choice and control over her life again.

It sounds like she just wants to break free from the shackles of expectations, judgment and peer pressure women face for the way they look, rather than to actually want to be present as a man. And that because being trans is seen as trendy by some wokesters, I guess she feels it will make people (superficially) like her and she can be considered cool. Basically it seems all an escape and a solution to where she's at now, not because of wanting to change, but because she isn't happy at the moment.

Just saw the bit where she was talking about trans...I would be a bit worried....the trans thing seems very trendy right now. I think it is a reaction to enforced gender stereotypes but has resulted in a lot of confused and scared parents and children. Have you voiced your concerns to her?

I think girls should question the need to conform to beauty standards but having irreversable treatments would scare me.

I think the teen girls suffered most during lockdown. Friendships were redrawn during lockdown and if your child isn't great at communicating online, they missed out. It's so tough

Re weight and the potential trans issue, I think these are linked. She just wants to "disappear". She's now old enough to do PureGym with you/DH if that's a possibility, or maybe go on long family walks. So much of her misery seems caught up with her looks and friendship issues.

Regarding school, what is her school like? If it could be linked to the school, I would tell her that she can leave for A levels if she wants. Perhaps a sixth form college would suit her better where there is less big group socialising?

I’m not sure I agree with the ‘let her cut her hair’. Not that you can stop her, of course, but I think The Haircut can be seen as a massive step into an ‘identity’, and then it’s harder to withdraw from all that.

But you can’t stop her and by railing against it you might just confirm the ‘reality’ of that ‘identity’ in her mind. Hair is just hair. She’s a girl no matter what she does. Cut it into a mullet, you’re a girl with a mullet. Shave it all off, still a girl, just bald. That’s what I’d be telling her.

How did all that flour for cakes? It was like gold dust!

My sixteen year old, not overweight, is also wearing absolutely massive hoodies at the moment, I think it's 'a look'. And the hair shouldn't be an issue Witt, it's just hair. Your conditioner bill will be slashed. I've two teenagers on the curly girl method so I feel your pain there.

I'd be concentrating on getting a grip on her health now. Her diet and her exercise. She's not got the capability of doing it herself as demonstrated during lockdown so it's up to you now to overhaul it.

For feminine, curvy teens, embrace the 1950s look bound to be a grungy shop in the student area of your nearest city.

Or would she be interested in making her own clothes (even if she chooses to make androgynous ones)? It might help her to have an interest that wasn't online related.

I appreciate that you (and she) can't force an interest where there is none, but a cheap, reliable sewing machine might both get her away from comparing herself to online skinny girls, and stop her eating if she's otherwise occupied.

@Etinox no judgement about the baking, I obviously appreciate many in lockdown did an awful lot of baking!
But in the middle of the night? My 15 year old definitely had a more lenient bedtime routine etc during lockdown but there was still a routine and I would have been very concerned if either of my teens were baking in the middle of the night and putting on lots of weight!

Having come out the other side of all this with my dd I would firmly discourage her from labelling herself as anything. Brain development doesn’t stop until mid twenties. Also get her bloods checked - my dd has just turned out to be low in iron with a slightly under active thyroid. I thought she was just having a rubbish year.
I let her dress and have her hair however she wants.

I would let her change her hair and what she wears but caution her to be careful calling herself trans if she isn't, go for gender neutral instead as I imagine it could take a lot of effort to keep up with presenting as trans if she is not. Her friends will respect her more for being honest than being trans to be popular.

I would not worry overmuch.
Kids now experiment with gender identity like kids did in the 80s with sexuality. My 16yr old for awhile was saying she was a trans boy but then decided no, she’s a gender nonconforming lesbian. She now thinks all clothes, haircuts, interests etc are unisex and fair game.

I’d have open and honest discussions about gender, sexuality and share what you remember of the confusion inherent when you are a teen.

My dd is a year older and often dresses in the “dad look”, she’s a size 10 but has to wear bigger due to having a big bottom and wide hips, she finds most clothes uncomfortable so prefers baggy comfy clothing. Dd has never been girly and identifies as Pan sexual. Dd is now at 6 form so is in non uniform at school and has started to take a bit more pride in what she wears as she’s not allowed to wear joggers.

I wouldn’t be too worried, it’s pretty normal at this age for them to experiment with their looks/style, I remember going from goth to punk to grunge at that age and not really knowing what I looked good or bad in (and not really caring). We didn’t have all the Trans stuff rammed down our necks through social media back then but I’m sure if we did it would have confused things even more especially for kids like me who were Tom boys.

I think all you can do is motivate her to loose some weight, maybe go running/walking together or join the gym (depending on if gyms are open in your area), stop the cooking in the night, don’t buy stuff she can make cakes with. My dd would stuff her face with cheese and Pringles if it was in the house, I no longer buy these things. I wouldn’t worry too much about what she wears or how she likes her hair done, lots of girls now have short hair.

But you can’t stop her and by railing against it you might just confirm the ‘reality’ of that ‘identity’ in her mind. Hair is just hair. She’s a girl no matter what she does. Cut it into a mullet, you’re a girl with a mullet. Shave it all off, still a girl, just bald. That’s what I’d be telling her

I didn’t mention railing against it. I see what you’re saying though and agree it would have to be dealt with very carefully. Telling her she’s a girl no matter her hairstyle might equally entrench her views, might it not?

It’s very hard to judge the tone needed. My other thought in reading the OP was the potential for some kind of self-harm and self-hate. Similar feelings led me to anorexia, so even the weight loss/health aspect needs to be handled carefully.

Thete was a book out recently, Irreversible Damage by Abigail Shrier, that discusses this phenomenon. blackwells.co.uk/bookshop/product/Irreversible-Damage-by-Abigail-Shrier-author/9781684510313

Your daughter might not want to read it but maybe she would watch an interview with the author such as this one with Keelie-Jay Keen?

OP I would try to put aside the panic and focus on the building blocks, getting her back on her own even keel. That means improving her health and fitness and habits and sleep and helping her with friendship tactics. You are going to have to prioritise that for a bit, over work. If you do that she will be in the right frame of mind and either she and you will be more certain about gender issues or she will leave that aside and get back to herself. I agree with @beautiful3. Monitor her diet and sleep habits for a start, get her doing some healthy midn things during the day like reading good stuff or going for long walks with you, take her for jobs, try an old exercise thing by Cindy Crawford which you can find on youtube called "Shape Your Body" which is great for toning up curly shaped bodies and looking amazing, and feeling amazing - use light weights for arms for her age though.

Telling her she’s a girl no matter her hairstyle might equally entrench her views, might it not?

But at least it would keep everyone’s feet grounded in reality. It can be said gently.

Why are people harping on about the midnight baking? How do you propose the OP goes back and changes that? Do you have a time machine? 🙄

OP It doesn't sound like your DD is trans at all - she just doesn't want to fell she has to conform to the "skinny girl" thing and thinks it will make her interesting to people who would then want to be her friend. It doesn't sound like she actually wants to be male.

DD (14) wears her brothers' hoodys a lot of the time and prefers what we call a "Billy eilish" look. Mullets are "in" I think. Actress Maisie Williams has one (It popped up on my newsfeed once!) and there were other celebrity mullets too. They aren't a "boy" thing.

I was a size 4-6 when I was her age and I hated my body. I'd either have to wear children's clothes or H&M stuff which was all baggy clothing. I went for the latter as didnt want to dress like a child. When I got to uni, I found myself a bit more and started wearing what you would call more traditional clothes for my age. I basically brought into Topshop, make-up tutorials on YouTube helped me know how to apply make up properly and I went to a good hairdresser who styled my hair in a way I liked and complimented my face and shape.

Would it help if you did things like bike rides/gym on your days off/evenings so to get her in the habit to lose weight if it is the cause of her body issues? It sounds like she is crying for attention and down about her body. She is right, social media is full of "perfect" body images and with the Kardashian clan unfortunately being what girls aspire to looking like, at the impressionable teenage stage it will take its toll on her. Could you suggest she takes some time off social media and focus on her mental wellbeing? Yoga/Pilates have helped me tremendously in the past. Or a nice long run, couch to 5k makes it easier to get to a 30 min run and surprisingly enjoyable!!!