Page 9 | To report this teacher to the school (help!!!)

LastGoldenDaysOfSummer · 23/10/2020 09:46

OP, get a grip. Stop justifying your stance, it's just plain daft.

"Teacher does nice thing to comfort child" - "whining parent doesn't shut up about it."

CuriousaboutSamphire · 23/10/2020 09:47

I do feel that comforting a really upset child, or a small child in nursery/early years is quite different to comforting a 14 year old boy by touch because he has had his mobile phone confiscated. Well, in the years before this sort of crap forced me out of teaching I hugged many 16 - 25 year old boys/men who had had an upset in their lives, exam results etc. Some required a full on gather in to weep onto my shoulder others a reassuring touch in the arm. Some are now international rugby players!

Sometimes only the reassurance of physical contact will get through the emotional flux. And yes, I was reprimanded for it a lot of times, even had a complaint from the parent of a 19 year old who was distressed all over again by his parent's actions. It is not something I would wish on anyone and it can be career ending!

So maybe, just maybe, set aside your ire and ponder both the reason you know any of this and the reason you are so angry about it.

LuaDipa · 23/10/2020 09:54

It doesn’t matter whether it was a touch or a hug, if the child is uncomfortable they should be able to say so without fear of consequences. Again, can you think of any circumstance in which a male teacher would touch a female student in any manner? I have no doubt at all that the teacher meant well, but if a child expresses discomfort, as this boy did with his comment, she should apologise and be sure not to repeat the behaviour.

The way the op and this boy, who none of us know personally, have been ripped to shreds, simply for querying a small incident at school is appalling. Worse, the op has taken on board the points made, and is still experiencing this awful pile on.

Teachers do an amazing job, one that I truly appreciate, but they are human, they do sometimes make mistakes. There is something seriously wrong if we can’t speak to our teachers, or to other parents as the op did, to query their actions or the reasons behind, and see if there might be an issue, or if we are overreacting (as I’m sure we all do on occasion).

The best piece of advice I have ever been given is not to treat people as you would like to be treated, treat them as they would like to be treated. Some kids are fine with hugs etc - fine. Some can’t think of anything worse - don’t vilify them for not fitting into your own idea of what is or isn’t ‘acceptable’.

zaphodbeeble · 23/10/2020 10:00

I doubt he was bothered by the touch, it’s just an excuse to deflect from his bad behaviour

Goatinthegarden · 23/10/2020 10:03

@QuiteGood

It sounds like your son didn’t want to be touched regardless of Covid. Why does everyone on here think that being upset automatically warrants physical touch? When I’m upset I often don’t want strangers or even non strangers touching me and on other occasions I don’t mind. My 14 year old sometimes has an angry cry at home - possibly at a sanction me or my husband has imposed. The last thing he wants is a cuddle in these moments. When I’ve tried to and he’s brushed me off, that cuddle has been about me and my feelings not his. There’s a lot of people on here getting hysterical because they think the teacher was being kind and because your son was naughty he shouldn’t have any right to be respected, a concept I find revolting. Yes it was coming from a good place but your son is 14 not 4, I would want to check that invading his physical space is wanted first. Your son is entitled to his boundaries. I’m not suggesting the teacher needs to be reported but I really think you’ve had an unnecessarily hard time here. Covid is a thing. A serious thing. Your son is entitled to his space and a skilled professional should be able to give as much comfort with words as they can with touch. I think you’ve been very reasonable on this thread by accepting reporting the teacher would be OTT. The responses have ignored that and continued to pile on regardless. Stick with your instincts that this wasn’t ok, whilst also not being a major deal. Let your son know his instincts are perfectly acceptable. In spite of the majority waffling nonsense on this thread, it doesn’t mean you are wrong.

I think the point is, he probably wasn’t actually hugged by the teacher at all. Judging by the way OP has described the conversation with her child, was like "Miss xxxx" hugged me today. I was like, wtf, and he was like nah she didn't really hug me but she did touch me mum so ive probs got covid now. I asked him exactly what happened but he said i was making a fuss

I have touched plenty of upset children on an arm or a shoulder, but would never just hug a child. I allow children to hug me freely if they need to, but I don’t know any teacher that would just wrap their arms right around a child, even a young one, unsolicited.

eatsleepread · 23/10/2020 10:07

My first ever

viques · 23/10/2020 10:42

@12309845653ghydrvj

Also I think posters are right to highlight to you how you are totally minimising your son’s behaviour—the language is so revealing.

“Spending time in the behaviour centre”—he was PUT there for bad behaviour, it’s not the Holiday Inn

“He can be a bit of an idiot”—it sounds like he knows exactly what he can get away it, and how to push your buttons

“And one of the teachers in there touched him” and then he “clammed up”—sorry but this sounds like you’re trying to imply something extremely innapropriate happened? When you’re called out, you backtrack

“I was like WTF” to hearing the teacher touched his arm/patted him, rather than to him misbehaving?

“And he apparently told her she would give him Covid”—talking back to a teacher who was trying to deal sensitively with him

“I guess he just said it to get a reaction out of me”—insightful, then you quickly roll back to why the teacher was in the wrong...

“I admit he is being quite good here at diverting my attention as someone here said...but he is not a bad kid” ... followed by further mudslinging at the teacher and making excuses for him

Why report? “I guess just to share concerns”—NO that is not what you were saying at the start, you’re backtracking because people are calling you out.

“He did not tell her she was giving him Covid in a rude way, I think to be honest he saw it as banter”—he’s in detention and acting like a brat, that’s not banter that’s continuing to defy his teachers

“He also did not tell me ‘in order to make an allegation’”—you literally admitted that earlier! That he only told you to get a reaction from you, as a means to distract from what he did wrong!!!

He’s not a little shit “He was in isolation for refusing to hand his phone over”, “and I think he had a strop over the fucking phone”—this sounds like a fairly big incident to me, and again like it’s being minimised

You just wanted to say “heads up, be careful with Covid”—LOL then you’d mention it to the teacher, not go off in a strip about wanting to make an official report!!

“No one commented on the boundaries I put in place for him, which are quite clealry there”—maybe they are, but they’re defiantly not clear on this thread!!! Honestly I think everyone has been in school with “that kid” who acted like a brat in class, and would then have his mum coming in accusing the teachers of favouritism, unproefssionalsim, etc anything other than just saying her child was acting like a brat.

Back. Up. His. Teachers.

You are undermining their attempts to ensure he acts well in school, it’s not a help to them or to him.

Excellent analysis.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 23/10/2020 10:44

It doesn’t matter whether it was a touch or a hug, if the child is uncomfortable they should be able to say so without fear of consequences. He did, to the teacher and his mum!

Again, can you think of any circumstance in which a male teacher would touch a female student in any manner? Yup! In very many circumstances. Or do you just want to demonise male teachers?

I have no doubt at all that the teacher meant well, but if a child expresses discomfort, as this boy did with his comment, she should apologise and be sure not to repeat the behaviour. She did apologise, it's right there, in the OP!

She will probably still be worrying about the possible consequences of her misplaced concern and placating hand. Disciplinary action is quite likley in such circumsatnces... all it takes is a disgruntled teen and an angry parent! Oh look...

This could be the incident that makes her one of the hard hearted, fuck you, your distress isn't worth my job kind of teachers than MN also loves to hate!

This sort of shit adds to the load teachers carry, the load that makes them leave, in their droves. A measly 67% 5-year retention rate up to 2019! That's about 36,000 fully qualified, experinced teachers leaving in 2019, not retiring or dying in service (with more NQTs to add to that number).

QuiteGood · 23/10/2020 11:08

Curious there’s so much projecting in your responses. You’re making this all about you. The OP has made it clear she isn’t reporting it, so any of that anxiety, if indeed it exists, will be in the teacher‘s own head because she did something strictly speaking she shouldn’t have. I take you’re point that many children and adults welcome touch, is it so hard for you to see that many also don’t?

I just can’t see why people are going on and on about this. The non reporting OP has somehow wrecked this teacher’s career. Such hyperbole.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 23/10/2020 11:13

Ah! Yes. I see the error of my ways. Posting about something I have experience of. My apologies!

I just can’t see why people are going on and on about this. The non reporting OP has somehow wrecked this teacher’s career. Such hyperbole. Odd. 'going on and on' about something is what AIBU is for. And no one has said OP has wrecked anything. Why would you say that!?

LuaDipa · 23/10/2020 11:21

This type of response is exactly my point. Why do you assume that this boy is a disgruntled teen or his mum is an angry parent. She was unsure about a situation, sought advice BEFORE taking any action at all, and quickly understood that she would be overreacting to report the matter. I think her behaviour was perfectly reasonable to be honest. You are the one that seems to be displaying an overly angry and emotional reaction to this thread.

I’m certainly not trying to demonise teachers, male or otherwise, I have said that I think they do an excellent job. I just feel that there is a double standard here. If a poster came on here saying that her female dd aged 14 had been touched on the arm by her teacher whilst in detention and it had made her uncomfortable, I doubt as many people would be jumping to the conclusion that she was obviously a bad apple who was making the entire thing up.

In this particular instance, I think the teacher’s behaviour was impeccable, she did apologise and no further action is necessary. But that doesn’t make it wrong to query any behaviour ever. Doing so does not mean that I don’t value teachers or that they should be vilified for every minor error in judgement. I just understand that they make mistakes as we all do.

QuiteGood · 23/10/2020 11:23

This could be the incident that makes her hard hearted....Your words.

The unreported/uncomplained incident could make her hard hearted? By ESP? Or are you saying the child shouldn’t have told her not to touch him in the first place.

People CAN go on and on about what they like anywhere on mumsnet and I reserve the right to say the response is nuts.

You can post about your experiences but your dogged defence of your position is quite revealing.

Btw I’ve worked for many years with people experiencing distress and managed to provide comfort whilst keeping my hands to myself, as per my contract. I don’t see myself has hard hearted.

LuaDipa · 23/10/2020 11:23

*think that they should be vilified

TartanLassie · 23/10/2020 11:27

@Badgerbadger22

Your son has deflected your anger at him being badly behaved at school and turned it into you being concerned for him because someone touched his arm.

Bravo young chap! 👏

This with bells on!!!

CuriousaboutSamphire · 23/10/2020 11:38

The unreported/uncomplained incident could make her hard hearted? By ESP? Or are you saying the child shouldn’t have told her not to touch him in the first place. Behave! Not one line of that makes sense!

QuiteGood · 23/10/2020 11:46

You seem to be suggesting the teacher could turn hard hearted because a child suggested she shouldn’t be touching him. If she can’t cope with him asserting his boundaries then she frankly shouldn’t be teaching.

I think the fact you were reprimanded over and over again & refused to find appropriate ways of

Alternatively you are implying that she could turn hard hearted because the child’s mother had thoughts about reporting her but didn’t act on them. In that case you are making no sense.

The fact you were reprimanded over and over & refused to find more appropriate ways of providing comfort tells a story in itself. Defensive, rescuer.

12309845653ghydrvj · 23/10/2020 11:57

To some of the recent posters saying OP was just seeking advice: oh come off it! She came here all full of her righteous anger and mudslinging, but quickly changed her tone when she didn’t get the response she wanted. Then acted like “ok fine you’re right, but you’re misinterpreting me” and then went straight back to mudslinging at the teacher and acting like the son was just innocently sitting by in all this!

CuriousaboutSamphire · 23/10/2020 12:11

The fact you were reprimanded over and over & refused to find more appropriate ways of providing comfort tells a story in itself. Defensive, rescuer. Oooh! That's it, in a nutshell!

LuaDipa · 23/10/2020 12:22

@12309845653ghydrvj

From the op’s first post:

Do you think this is dealt with and it was just an error of judgement from the teacher or do you think I should be making a bigger deal? I am genuinely torn

Doesn’t seem like righteous anger and mudslinging to me.

saraclara · 23/10/2020 12:31

I have touched plenty of upset children on an arm or a shoulder, but would never just hug a child. I allow children to hug me freely if they need to, but I don’t know any teacher that would just wrap their arms right around a child, even a young one, unsolicited.

Exactly..I worked in a school for teenagers with emotional and behavioural difficulties. A full on hug from a distressed or angry 16 year old boy was far from unusual..But always initiated by them. And we knew which students, of either sex, would welcome a reassuring touch on the arm, and which would recoil.

EmeraldShamrock · 23/10/2020 12:34

I highly doubt it was anything like a hug, possibly a shoulder squeeze.
As he is 14 and doesn't care about Covid is he still meeting friends and girlfriend, mingling after school.
I went to the supermarket yesterday not realising it was the school lunch break, there was at least 60 teenagers eating their roll chatting in the carpark as it has always been.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 23/10/2020 12:38

@saraclara

I have touched plenty of upset children on an arm or a shoulder, but would never just hug a child. I allow children to hug me freely if they need to, but I don’t know any teacher that would just wrap their arms right around a child, even a young one, unsolicited.

Exactly..I worked in a school for teenagers with emotional and behavioural difficulties. A full on hug from a distressed or angry 16 year old boy was far from unusual..But always initiated by them. And we knew which students, of either sex, would welcome a reassuring touch on the arm, and which would recoil.

That's the thing that some posters are ignoring! When a child/student wants that physical reassurance we always have to make a decision - say no, leave them wanting; allow them the touch they require to calm them down! It doesn't matter what decision you make, there is always the chance that someone will take issue with it! Soemtiomes you just can't win! So you do what is best for the student and take whatever comes to you.

Look at my posts. I state clearly that the student's had differing needs. I could only know that if the touch was student led... but no! I am/was a rescuer! Far from the case, as anyone who has taught that age group will know. You teach Post Compulsory in the hope that such stuff is unecessary!

FredaFrogspawn · 23/10/2020 12:40

A side shoulder squeeze is a secondary school hug... We don’t tend to do full on bear hugs until results day and that’s only when they leap at us!

sst1234 · 23/10/2020 12:41

What a shame that teachers have to put up with parents like this. Maybe if you focused more on your child’s behaviour rather than this nonsense with the teacher, your child wouldn’t need to be punished.

EmeraldShamrock · 23/10/2020 12:48

His phone wasn't been confiscated from his pocket. He was obviously using it in class then had a tantrum which he was then removed from the class and your worried about a teacher touching him.