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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask why there is such food poverty.

612 replies

Helendee · 21/10/2020 18:33

Please no flaming as I genuinely am seeking answers as to why so many children are going to school hungry these days.
This is not a critical or inflammatory post, I just want to know what’s gone wrong.
Obviously many of us are struggling financially because of Covid but food poverty was a huge problem before that.
Is it that benefit levels are too low to adequately feed our children?
What can we do to ameliorate the situation?

OP posts:
MyGhastIsFlabbered · 23/10/2020 16:46

I was living in a H&M hostel with my alcoholic mum at 15. We had no access to a fridge or cooker - just a kettle, toaster and microwave. How are you supposed to eat with those facilities?

I was a single parent working in a low paid job, getting more in benefits than my meagre salary. I was also paying extortionate rent so that my kids could stay near their dad, who was an abusive cunt (but that's another story), with MH issues - poor impulse control being one of them.

Some days I would have to choose between petrol for the car or tampons, some days it was bread or milk. It's soul destroying so as soon as I ever got money I splurge on 'treats' resulting in me soon being skint again and having to make difficult choices.

My kids never went hungry though, but I did. Poverty is a really complex problem - there is no 'one size fits all' solution. Same as homelessness - do you really think if this country was suddenly able to provide adequate housing for everyone that there would never be street homelessness again?

YankeeinKingArthursCourt · 23/10/2020 16:58

@Katyppp @grenlei

National data from The Trussell Trust food banks seeing an increase of 107% for children's use since the pandemic ( on top of the nearly 2 million users before April).

www.trusselltrust.org/heriot-watt-research-2020/

Oblomov20 · 23/10/2020 17:04

Most parents who don't feed their kids do it just because they just don't care, have other priorities. If they really wanted the help often something is available. It's not these parents that are the problem. It's the others!

20mum · 23/10/2020 17:25

So, the answer is bldn obvious. All maintenance to be paid directly to government and errant liable parent pursued through courts by their lawyers. Custody parent gets a certainty of the basic UC, and surplus can be saved up like any other child trust fund.

All benefits (and arguably all costs to the State) kept on a balance sheet. In case of a change of circumstances, such as lottery win, marriage to a millionaire (!), or any grant from an offshore or family trust, or a sale of a house, or a sudden leap in income from a private business, or sale of a valuable, or inheritance, would have to be legally declared, so a reasonable repayment could be ordered by court. (Trusts and houses can easily be frozen pending consent by the creditor to release)

IceCreamAndCandyfloss · 23/10/2020 18:55

@20mum

So, the answer is bldn obvious. All maintenance to be paid directly to government and errant liable parent pursued through courts by their lawyers. Custody parent gets a certainty of the basic UC, and surplus can be saved up like any other child trust fund.

All benefits (and arguably all costs to the State) kept on a balance sheet. In case of a change of circumstances, such as lottery win, marriage to a millionaire (!), or any grant from an offshore or family trust, or a sale of a house, or a sudden leap in income from a private business, or sale of a valuable, or inheritance, would have to be legally declared, so a reasonable repayment could be ordered by court. (Trusts and houses can easily be frozen pending consent by the creditor to release)

The first part only works if both parents are made to pay, it’s not just nrp that don’t pay.

The second part is interesting, it child benefits were in the form of a “loan” to be repaid I wonder how much the birth rate would drop by or how many would work more.

TheFormerPorpentinaScamander · 23/10/2020 19:12

So, the answer is bldn obvious. All maintenance to be paid directly to government and errant liable parent pursued through courts by their lawyers. Custody parent gets a certainty of the basic UC, and surplus can be saved up like any other child trust fund.
Well its obvious to me. Its obvious to you. Its obvious to everyone except the people who actually have the power to make it a reality!

Graphista · 23/10/2020 20:24

Balls yes sorry messed the money up! In my defence it was late.

So

So to do an SOA per calendar month:

Income 1500.00

Outgoings
Rent 750.00 (and hope it doesn’t go up or the landlord force you out because you’re now on benefits)
Council tax 26.00
Utilities 150.00
Tv licence 13.20 (I think you rounded up?)
Broadband 20.83
Mobile 20.00
Netflix 5.99 (ditto)
Clothes, shoes and toiletries 60.00

That comes to 1046.02

Which leaves 453.98 for:
Food, haircuts, stationery and other school supplies, otc meds and 1st aid products, cleaning products, and...

Any emergencies - eg something major breaks or needs replacing.

Usual household items need replacing - light bulbs, batteries, bedding etc

And as you yourself say that doesn’t include Christmas/birthdays, keeping child occupied and feeding them more than usual in holidays etc

So I maintain that for 2 people inc a growing child that’s still tight.

wewillmeetagain · 23/10/2020 21:22

Exactly what @Katyppp said, people don't like the truth to get in the way of virtue signaling!

SciFiScream · 23/10/2020 22:10

It's interesting that you list bedding as an item that needs replacing (implication of regularly?).

Apart from one bed sheet I've not bought any bedding in 20 years!!!

I've only bought two hand towels in 20 years too.

drspouse · 23/10/2020 22:17

We have two DCs and they they have both needed new sheets as they've moved up to bigger beds. Cheap sheets don't last that long either - DS put his foot through a flannel one from Asda, then I mended it and he did the same again.

Graphista · 23/10/2020 22:58

@witchesglove

What’s to stop them studying/ gaining promotion/ building up a business?

Because there’s only so much work to go around, because they are UNLUCKY In lacking academic ability, UNLUCKY in being sick or disabled but still able to work at nmw level, UNLUCKY in not having access to a good school that would have educated them well enough to get to college/uni, UNLUCKY in not having a stable, supportive and healthy (emotionally and physically), UNLUCKY in that they’ve suffered a trauma that means they can only cope with certain working conditions, UNLUCKY that where they were born and are now living doesn’t have good employment opportunities, UNLUCKY that they don’t have the capital to move to where there are better job opportunities... do we really need to go on?

Be grateful that you live in a country where we have free, fail-safe contraception! except we don’t! Not totally! For starters NO contraceptive is “fail safe” I fell pregnant the 1st time at 18 on the pill, no contraindicating factors (I was paranoid I had my Casio watch alarm set for it!), sadly I mc though on paper it was perhaps for the best it didn’t bloody feel like it! I’ve friends and family who’ve fallen pregnant on the implant, injection, coil, even after vasectomy all clear! (and yes it was his child!), free at point of obtaining maybe, but with the cuts sexual health clinics are many miles away for large swathes of the population, gps and pharmacists are allowed to refuse to supply prescriptions or fill prescriptions on their PERSONAL moral or religious objections, that’s if you can get an appointment at the moment which for many is proving extremely difficult. I was on a thread about this the other week and several posters were needing implants etc updated, so we’re likely to see a small “baby boom” as a result of this alone! Abstinence? Fine if you actually get a choice! Many women are in abusive relationships where they’re being raped, plus other rape victims.

I don't think many people realise just how weighted against people the system is

Yep - I’ve explained on here before to those oblivious, that a temp job can actually cost a benefits claimant significantly and seriously disadvantage them. Take the job, takes several weeks for the new benefits level to be instituted meanwhile the claimant isn’t receiving any benefits buy still needs transport to work, possibly work clothes etc, Job ends, not wage, no benefits while they’re “reassessed” fuck all income!

The uc system was SUPPOSED to be more flexible, more adaptive - hah! Even in a regular job if you get 2 salaries in 1 uc “month” you’re fucked!

1) We can just invite immigrants to do them lovely attitude! Not at all bigoted!

2) You don’t need to be ‘intelligent’ to improve yourself- some degrees are a load of bollocks and anyone can get into uni. that’s utter nonsense and you know it!! I’ve 2 degrees, one “vocational” and 1 “academic” both had loads of applicants who were not successful at getting on the course and not just because of numbers, both had a significant number of students “drop out” in the first term because they couldn’t keep up with the work

3) Why would you need money to work hard and eventually gain promotion? at a BASIC level to nourish yourself to physically be able to work lots/well, to afford childcare, transport, to work antisocial hours, to go on training courses...

4) Apprenticeships are available at no cost these are few and far between, highly sought after and not everyone meets the criteria which can and often does include a requirement to have maths and English at gcse grade c level which not everyone can achieve eg if they have a learning disability

Are there no free back to education courses in the U.K.?? generally speaking no, is the short answer, slightly better here in Scotland as different education system but as far as I can tell not in england

Smellbellina · 23/10/2020 23:05

I think that schools need to teach basic cooking skills from year 3 onwards

Really? Do you really? Have you lived it, properly researched it? And even if this would solve this terrible issue of hungry kids when do we see fruition? In a year? Is it all sorted in a year because YR4 kids are now taking responsibility for feeding their families from scratch? Or is it a generational thing in which case what do you propose to do now?

For what it’s worth I am not in favour of FSM during school holidays (putting my hard hat on)

FiveFootTwoEyesOfBlue · 23/10/2020 23:16

People saying that food is sooo expensive. That's just not true. We have incredibly cheap food now.

In the 1950s we spent a third of our income on food shopping, but in 1974 this had gone down to 24%. By 2016 food shopping accounted for just 10.5% of our income.

www.which.co.uk/news/2019/11/heres-how-our-food-prices-compare-to-30-years-ago-and-you-might-be-surprised/

Rent and mortgages are much more expensive though.

grenlei · 23/10/2020 23:28

There are generations of families who can't cook, know nothing of nutrition. So kids don't learn from parents or grandparents, and the cycle continues.

Yes there are some who might have an interest in cooking but if your whole family don't then you probably won't either. I can't see that teaching kids how to make a meal from £1 worth of ingredients could do any harm and if anything it could help them feed themselves and siblings at home if their parents are not doing so. And teach them skills they can then use when they grow up and have a family of their own...

MikeUniformMike · 23/10/2020 23:30

Not only is there food poverty but there is internet poverty.
Food doesn't have to be expensive but for someone on a very low income they might be limited as to where they can shop.

As for food delivery, how are you going to afford it if you can't afford a broadband connection to order it with?

grenlei · 23/10/2020 23:36

I think most people have either broadband or if they can't afford that a mobile with internet (under £10 a month from certain providers with more than enough data to do an online food shop) but even if they don't, libraries still have free internet access round here.

SheepandCow · 23/10/2020 23:40

@MikeUniformMike
Yes. I often notice people on threads like this dismiss internet access (and phones) as an unnecessary 'luxury' for the poor. Contact with the outside world? How dare they!

The internet is, nowadays, a lifeline for many particularly the disabled who would otherwise be isolated at home 24/7.

People need the internet to claim UC and to jobseek, to contact doctors, for school work. Perhaps even to look up How To Cook lessons on YouTube etc. Recipes too.

MikeUniformMike · 24/10/2020 00:15

Thanks SheepandCow.

During the lockdown, people who normally use the free internet at the library couldn't.

Finding the money for a device and the direct debit for broadband is not possible for someone who is struggling to get by.

MikeUniformMike · 24/10/2020 00:17

I was talking to someone in a fairly rural area, and during the lockdown (now) they are limited to local shops, which tend to lack choice and are more expensive.

MikeUniformMike · 24/10/2020 00:19

@grenlei, how do you afford £10 a month if you are living hand to mouth? You would have to go without something else and it would probably be food.

grenlei · 24/10/2020 00:34

If we're talking about a family with children, then the benefit levels referenced upthread are apparently such that £10 a month for a mobile contract could be factored in without meaning anyone has to go without food (unless they're wasting money elsewhere). And in the event the £10 can't be afforded, then the local library will have free internet. Or many shopping centres and public spaces have free WiFi.

MikeUniformMike · 24/10/2020 00:43

During the lockdown you couldn't use the local library, and £10 a month is a lot if you haven't got it. How do you get a device to use free wifi if you have no money?

grenlei · 24/10/2020 01:11

Libraries have all reopened now though, and have been since July or so round here. I know people do give away phones via local charities or Freecycle pages, not the latest models but in working order and good enough to get online with. So there are options even if the cost of a device and/ or monthly line rental is out of budget.

MikeUniformMike · 24/10/2020 01:31

Around here you need to book a slot at the library.

If you haven't got access to the web, how do you look on Facebook and Freecycle to ask for a device?

MikeUniformMike · 24/10/2020 01:33

Even if you got a device you need money to have the phone connected so you'd need a SIM.