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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask why there is such food poverty.

612 replies

Helendee · 21/10/2020 18:33

Please no flaming as I genuinely am seeking answers as to why so many children are going to school hungry these days.
This is not a critical or inflammatory post, I just want to know what’s gone wrong.
Obviously many of us are struggling financially because of Covid but food poverty was a huge problem before that.
Is it that benefit levels are too low to adequately feed our children?
What can we do to ameliorate the situation?

OP posts:
20mum · 22/10/2020 16:44

Jennie Lee started Open University, all those decades ago. It seems most people are a little unwilling to apply their brains to thinking outside a tramline. Degrees and apprenticeships used to be full time and at a specific location, in the days of Queen Victoria. Technology, and Covid, has changed all that. A lot of study can and should be on-line and at home and part time to fit around other matters.

A lot of practical learning can and should be prefaced with the equivalent of work experience schemes, otherwise known as Sit By Nellie, otherwise known as shadowing, otherwise known as internship, work trials, or assisting .

Arguably, almost nobody should sit full time in a desk to age 18, then sit full time in a campus or a workplace. Work introduction could allow people a glimpse of worlds they never thought of, and could give them the transferable skills of turning up on time, reliably, figuring how to deal with or dodge the politics and petty bullying inevitable in any place where someone has power, presenting themselves as if ready for work, managing the transport to get there.

Increasingly, virtually nobody will enter a certain specialist way to earn a living, and remain doing exactly that for a working lifetime. Increasingly too, the best advances are those where diverse teams of people bring diverse past experiences and make innovative connections in applying one set of knowledge in an entirely different area.

One desperately neglected and understaffed field of work is care, and caring for carers. There are plenty of non-nursing requirements, such as to help tidy up or prepare food, or water the window box and refill the bird feeder for someone who is in bed, and has no other pleasure than those flowers and birds. Those tasks would assist the regular carer, and might lead someone to consider a health career, or else might tell them that they are not cut out for it after all. Either way, it is useful information before starting a path of study.

U.K. has horrible skills shortages, for instance, weirdly, an absence of female engineers and technicians unlike other countries. There are plenty of jobs for those who can work in various areas. It is hard to justify public money for student loans if the student could perfectly easily learn on line, while earning a living. It is, however, easy to justify public spending if it removes barriers to those students who have demonstrated aptitude, willingness and ability to work and study in a 'skill shortage' field. Any part of the work/study which can be done from home should be, and almost certainly a large part of the skills which need to be practical are best learned by watching and helping in a workplace where they will be needed, as a 'sandwich' with any college courses.

I'm in favour of nailing shut offices, Houses of Parliament, and most campuses. The refusal to accept technology and work from home is inexcusable. Climate Emergency would dictate an end to avoidable travel. Covid would give an incentive for the reluctant-to-change. Even Mr R Mogg must now be forced to admit technology has transformed the world, since Queen Victoria. (But has anyone told him she died?)

WitchesGlove · 22/10/2020 16:45

@PatriciaPerch

I wish someone would come on and say they chose to knock out one babby after another whilst on benefits, legs akimbo watching sky sports on their massive tv
There have been threads on here in the past where the poster asks if they should drop to part time and rely on tax credits, or give up work after having a baby in order to claim benefits instead
WitchesGlove · 22/10/2020 16:49

@TheFormerPorpentinaScamander

Surely immigrants on minimum wage jobs would still need top up benefits?

I just looked for apprenticeships in my town. Of the 33 I found only 3 were actually in this town. All of them needed a full driving licence and A-levels. I thought they were meant to be for people who hadn't done so well academically. Clearly not. Confused

Most people live in cities and there are plenty of apprenticeships.

I’ve never seen any advertised that require A- levels!

TheFormerPorpentinaScamander · 22/10/2020 16:53

I live in a town that wishes it was a city. IIRC its the biggest town in the country, so hardly some tiny backwater. Still didn't find many apprenticeships! Although there might be more if I actually wanted one and spent more time looking I guess.

Danascully2 · 22/10/2020 16:59

I only live about an hour's drive from London so not in the wilds anywhere. It's a town not a village, but has no big supermarket (with cheap deals, regular yellow sticker items etc). Nearest major supermarket (still not massive so doesn't have much in the way of clothes for example) is a 12 mile round trip that costs about £7 return for one adult, children are more than half price so well over £10 return for one adult and child. So anyone who doesn't drive has immediate issues around food shopping. You can't get yellow sticker items on delivery orders. There are also many many nearby villages with no or very limited bus service and no shop at all. Sadly the foodbank is in massive demand.

BoudiccasBoudoir · 22/10/2020 17:05

@dontdisturbmenow

When you are really poor, it often is a case of eat now because who knows when you'll eat next, though. That was my point. That you can't see further than the next pay date as an adult, but yeah past the next meal is more like it.

StormBaby · 22/10/2020 17:15

Unfortunately there have been a few times in my life where my children would’ve benefited from free school meals. Things like injury and redundancy reduced our money so much that we had no choice but to rely on food banks. We earned ‘too much’ to get FSM sadly. It’s families like mine that slip through the cracks. The ‘working poor’.

I have known women who have babies just to get more money, have never worked in their life, have more children to get rehoused etc. They are 100% out there(and on MN). They all smoke, drink and gamble whilst their kids are dirty and hungry. Knowing that fact still doesn’t make me anti-welfare. I’d rather it still existed so that the others didn’t slip through the net when they most need it.

PhantomErik · 22/10/2020 17:18

TinyGhost that documentary was so sad. Sad

ChasingRainbows19 · 22/10/2020 17:26

I’ve only got to page 5. What a load of patronising bullshit from some of the posters. Now I see actually it wouldn’t just be the Tory Mps voting not to give children free school meals, plenty on here would too.

Poverty can affect anyone at anytime, this pandemic will prove that those in comfortable positions can fall into poverty and in years to come the poorest will continue to feel the pinch. On another thread so many people stated they had no savings.

Children aren’t asked to be brought into this world and they aren’t asked to be raised in poverty for whatever reason that is. Have some empathy and understand not everyone is privileged.

PhantomErik · 22/10/2020 17:30

That documentary also shows how poverty can really mess up your way of thinking.

The young man who was doing an apprentiseship was spending loads of money on shoes as he grew up having one old pair for 2 years because his Mum couldn't buy any more. The sensible thing to do, having lived through that hardship, would be to buy one pair & save the rest of the money as the start of your own back-up/rainy day fund.

That's where it's such a vicious circle, you're constantly struggling for money that the moment you get it you buy something you want. I don't blame him AT ALL & understand why he'd buy himself nice trainers but from an outside point of view he could be making better choices to set himself up to be in a better financial position in the future.

Poverty is nasty Sad

whittingtonmum · 22/10/2020 17:36

Among the many reasons why there is such food poverty (for example rising & systemic inequality, lack of social mobility , insecure & underpaid work like zero hour contracts, stagnant wages and a social security system which has been ripped to shreds by austerity) may I politely suggest that lack of cooking skills isn't one of them...

20mum · 22/10/2020 17:37

'Witchesglove you mention that on 16 hours' work, the disposable income through benefits can be equal to an earned £50,000 a year. If people can't see any problem with that, they have a logic by-pass.

Apparently, selling Big Issue counts as a 16 hour job.

june2007 · 22/10/2020 17:41

PhantomErik His mum went mad when he got a £50 t shirt well yes he could have bought the wks shop couldn,t he then he could have had a decent lunch rather then yesterdays paddington rolls.

zatarontoast · 22/10/2020 17:46

Sorry what is the documentary?

dontdisturbmenow · 22/10/2020 18:13

Interesting read:
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunger_in_the_United_Kingdom#:~:text=According%20to%20an%20April%202017,hunger%20measures%20available%20at%20school

Not so black and white as most posters would like everyone to believe.

studychick81 · 22/10/2020 19:17

Lots of people particularly those who are poor can't just go off and study and start their own business. The suggestion shows how naive and ignorant people are about the situation for most poor people.

I have a friend who I wouldn't say is poor but they struggle, her children are well fed and looked after, they have a nice car etc but struggle, no holidays except camping, everything second hand. Always balancing the books. She was an art teacher, so a professional, but left when she had her second as the hours she was offered couldn't be fitted around childcare and it would cost more than she earns- paying a whole day when she's only doing a few hours teaching. She now can't get a job as budgets have been cut so much there aren't jobs for art teachers anymore, humanities have been cut.

She now works as a cover supervisor, probably earning very little. She wants a better job and to earn more but can't afford the £3000 plus to study. This is a situation most probably find themselves in, she's now trapped. She is a professional with a teaching degree. It's not as simple as start your own business, go back and study.

I am lucky enough to be able to go back and study now almost forty. It is the first time we are financially able to afford for me to do so. We have used savings and DH earns enough to cover me. I had a professional job beforehand which I was stuck in for years as it worked around the children, was flexible and we couldn't afford for me to go back to study. I was trapped, only just earning more than I was paying out in childcare fees.

The idea, well you should have studied first also sucks. Some people simply do not have the means, attitude or opportunity to go and study. Generations of their family have left school and fallen into minimal wage jobs, it's beyond there aspersions.

Also, I did study, got a degree, had a professional job, but 10 years later found myself hating it, realising I had gone in the wrong direction, this wasn't the career for me. I was stuck. Life isn't that simple, but maybe it is for the rich who can just throw money at a problem.

FagashJackie · 22/10/2020 23:37

I think it's rubbish to say the 'don't have children if you can't afford them' rhetoric when Boris Johnson is saying exactly that himself.

How much is enough?

How many months are you away from needing benefits? Would you want the benefits to feed your children?

FagashJackie · 22/10/2020 23:54

There is still the pervading view that every mum on benefits is in that position from poor life choices, where the truth is that most people on benefits are there because of really low wages in the UK.

SheepandCow · 23/10/2020 00:01

@FagashJackie

There is still the pervading view that every mum on benefits is in that position from poor life choices, where the truth is that most people on benefits are there because of really low wages in the UK.
Yes. Many people claiming benefits are in full-time work.

That said, the real issue is housing. Slightly increased wages won't come close to keeping up with ever increasing housing costs. We need mass council housing.

Also, disability. All the study in the world doesn't help if you or your child gets ill or becomes disabled.

Incidentally, study can work against people. Redundancy happens. Quite a lot sadly. Lots of job applicants are rejected by employers for being 'over-qualified'.

timeforanewstart · 23/10/2020 00:52

Mobile phones may not be a luxury but having the latest one is
Lets not pretend some don't abuse the system as by ignoring this fact it means those in genuine need get less
High rent for some will be a big factor and in that case i can see why
But for many like those who smoke but claim they can't afford to feed kids and gioverment should give them more i can't sympathise as you have to prioritise and kids being fed should be up top
Our benefit system is abused by foo many and then the people who really need help don't get it and some seem to get so much more than others

SheepandCow · 23/10/2020 00:57

Let's not pretend that some don't abuse the system
Let's not hurt the majority who don't because of the minority who do.

As for those who do. Would you want to work with or employ these people?

Those who genuinely play the system (rather than having mental health or social care needs) are unemployable. A civilised society would ensure they don't starve, and then focus on the many who do want help.

VaggieMight · 23/10/2020 01:01

Our benefit system is abused by foo many and then the people who really need help don't get it and some seem to get so much more than others

The eligibility rules are the same for everyone. There are more unclaimed benefits than there are fraudulently claimed benefits. No one is advocating for fraudulent claimants to receive anything. The largest benefit bill is for state pensions. Most working age benefit payments are paid to people who are in work.

wafflyversatile · 23/10/2020 01:03

Biggest abusers of the benefit system are employers and politicians.

Lots of people cant cook well.

Lots of people arent great at budgeting.

Lots of people make bad decisions sometimes.

Its not skills or bad decisions that mark the difference between the haves and have nots. It's having enough money to compensate for mistakes or misfortune or lack of skills or not having enough money to do so that marks the difference.

timeforanewstart · 23/10/2020 01:04

To the poster who said they have always been better off working than on benefits , that is the point , you should always be better off working
Benefits was designed for a short term gap not life
Disability benefit is very differenf and could be funded better as many have no way of getting a job or of life changing etc
Where as a single mum at home with young children will hopefully eventually be able to help

SheepandCow · 23/10/2020 01:06

the largest benefit bill is for state pensions
Smoking is the solution. Brings in billions for the tax coffers (only costs the the NHS millions) AND saves on pensions and social care costs. Good stress relief too.

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