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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

AIBU to say no to “support bubble”?

98 replies

rheafern · 19/10/2020 23:00

We are very close to a family who lives nearby. They are lovely people, we all get on really well. Countless dinners, walks and laughs over the years. As soon as the new restrictions were announced, the mum, my friend, asked if we could be in a support bubble with them. I said, yes, let’s do it. The problem is that as soon as I started thinking and discussing it with DH, it became clear to us that we couldn’t actually. She said that, as a single parent, she could form a support bubble with another family. The problem is that she’s not in a single-adult household, as she has a lodger (lovely and supportive by the way!). I also thought that because she’s already in a bubble with her ex, with the children staying with him a couple of days a week, she couldn’t really form a second bubble with another household. So two reasons in my understanding. I was quite embarrassed to have to point out what I saw as obvious reasons to her, so obvious to me that I’d be implying she knew she’d be cheating... So I wasn’t clear in my messages from the beginning. I first mentioned the issue about her ex to see if the bubble idea would burst without me having to go into more detail. But she said that when you share custody, that doesn’t count as a bubble. Then I raised the single-adult household issue. To this she said her understanding of the rules were different to mine. Then she suggested that I was making excuses and didn’t want to join her bubble (to her daughter who told mine). That really pissed me off as there was nothing to do with not wanting that. I explained to her I just wanted to make sure I was following the rules. She then went a bit cold, cancelled an outdoors meeting we were having later... I’m feeling guilty that the way I dealt with it made her feel rejected but I’m also quite angry that someone I’ve been so close to would interpret things as she’s a victim when there are other people suffering much more and obviously at risk if we don’t stick to the rules. But have I got the rules on single-adult households wrong? Should I apologise or leave it?

OP posts:

Goosefoot · 20/10/2020 01:33

I don't see how a lodger could be a support person, as they'd have no obligation to be in any way supportive. They pay rent and sleep there and use the facilities, but they have zero obligation to help by, say, watching a child in an emergency, or anything else one might need a support bubble for. In some cases they might choose to be a support person but in others I imagine the homeowner wouldn't even think to ask as it would be inappropriate to the relationship.

user1481840227 · 20/10/2020 01:45

@notangelinajolie

She is being dramatic. Cancelling a meeting because you won't do what she wants makes her sound a bit unhinged. If you still want to remain friends with this woman you should tell her to get rid of her lodger. That way you will soon find out how important you are to her.

A bit unhinged

No she doesn't. It's actually normal not to want to meet up with someone after having a little disagreement!

Far more unhinged to tell her to get rid of the lodger to find out how important she is to her!

ilovesooty · 20/10/2020 01:46

@user1471500037

You’ve spat in her face and destroyed the friendship on the alter of Covid compliance- hang your head in shame

Don't be ridiculous.

Sparticuscaticus · 20/10/2020 02:39

@AlternativePerspective

Actually no that’s wrong, tier2 and 3 can still have a support bubble, but it is recommended that it is someone who is also in the same tier, and lives locally.

I think you misread my comment?

She is ineligible to Support bubble with OP. as she is not single adult household (full stop) even as lone parent due to lodger - earlier PP linked HMGov guidance to that bit

-But- being able to be in support bubble only really matters in Tier 2 and Tier 3 areas because Tier 1 areas still can meet with up to 6 indoors as well as outdoors. Except Wales and Scotland slight different rules

The quality of the interactions or lodgers helpfulness is irrelevant to Covid guidance.

BrummyMum1 · 20/10/2020 02:39

She’s asked for your help and support and you’ve thrown the rules back at her. I get where you’re coming from but I hope you were kind and tactful.

Littleposh · 20/10/2020 02:41

She's not in a bubble with her ex but she is with her lodger

Elsewyre · 20/10/2020 03:01

Do people really think/behave this way?

Elsewyre · 20/10/2020 03:03

"If you still want to remain friends with this woman you should tell her to get rid of her lodger. That way you will soon find out how important you are to her."

Goosefoot · 20/10/2020 03:20

I wouldn't call a lodger a member of the same household. A roommate, yes. But not a lodger. That's closer to someone you work with or a business partner.

PerveenMistry · 20/10/2020 03:46

@tunnocksreturns2019

Ha yes, a ‘support’ bubble with an ex doesn’t sound very supportive unless it was an exceptionally amicable breakup!

I’m widowed and being in a bubble has made the world of difference to me even though we have been too busy with work and kids to meet up lots.

I’m not sure you’re managing to see this from her point of view. She was probably lonely before covid, and the restrictions make a lonely life crushingly so.

Better lonely than dead.

Florencex · 20/10/2020 04:34

You were wrong about her ex, sharing custody does not mean they are in a support bubble. However she does not live by herself and therefore cannot form a support bubble. So YANBU.

Florencex · 20/10/2020 04:36

@Goosefoot

I wouldn't call a lodger a member of the same household. A roommate, yes. But not a lodger. That's closer to someone you work with or a business partner.

They are literally in the same household.

Support bubbles are for adults living alone. The quality of the relationship with other adults in the house is irrelevant.

Goosefoot · 20/10/2020 04:55

They are literally in the same household. confused

Support bubbles are for adults living alone. The quality of the relationship with other adults in the house is irrelevant.

A household isn't necessarily the same thing as people living in a house. In fact a lodger can be defined as someone who pays to live in your house but is not a member of the household.

Renters are a business relationship, separate finances etc. Not part of the household unit. Saying someone renting from you has some sort of obligation to be a support person for you is about as logical as saying your neighbour in the next apartment who shares a laundry room with you does.

If you only look at it from the POV of virus control it seems to make sense you'd group them together. But if it was a matter just of that, you'd not allow support bubbles at all, and you woudl say that people living in the same building should support each other since they are likely to share germs in public spaces anyway. But bubbles are meant to serve a function for the people - if the function isn't important, why have the bubble?

Florencex · 20/10/2020 05:03

@Goosefoot

They are literally in the same household. confused

Support bubbles are for adults living alone. The quality of the relationship with other adults in the house is irrelevant.

A household isn't necessarily the same thing as people living in a house. In fact a lodger can be defined as someone who pays to live in your house but is not a member of the household.

Support bubbles are for adults living alone. Take five seconds to look it up. There is not a long discussion on the nature of the relationship between adults in a shared household to determine if they are allowed a support bubble. There is only one thing that matters, how many people over 18 live in the house. If there is only one they can form a support bubble with another household. More than one they cannot. It is black and white.

Her friend does not live alone, so she cannot form a support bubble. Your waffling about the relationship with lodger is irrelevant.

Goldencurtain · 20/10/2020 05:51

Back in March when the death rates were the same you would have been castigating the friend for trying to break the rules. Burn the witch!

Casschops · 20/10/2020 05:58

Separate adults in shared accommodation do not have be a household. This is a similar situation to students in a shared house.

Dotinthecity · 20/10/2020 06:01

I think you may have to accept that your friendship is over. You've not been there when your friend needed you which is sad.

OverTheRainbow88 · 20/10/2020 06:05

Wow, someone kicked out a lodger to form a bubble during a pandemic. What has the world come to?!!

OP I think you are being unreasonable and unkind. Your friend clearly needs support, I’m not sure how you could say no on the basis that she doesn’t live alone.

Good Friendships are hard to find and will outlive covid.

looseddaughter · 20/10/2020 06:20

Although I think you are right, I think you handled it badly and I have no idea why you thought her kids seeing her ex counted as a support bubble and you said it was obvious to you so should be to her - but you were wrong about that! I know you didn't say that to her but still...

I think you were wrong to handle it all by text. You say your first messages were deliberately unclear and, while I hate confrontation myself, it's never a good idea to go round the houses and be obtuse about these things. By the time of the last message she probably got the impression you just didn't want to see her and didn't have the courage to say until forced into, which is not a nice feeling, especially if she's anxious about being lonely in these circumstances.

You say you had an outdoor meet-up planned and they are allowed in most areas with non-bubble members (and you haven't said you're tier 3?) so why didn't you go to that and have a face-to-face chat where you could have made clear you still want to meet up outdoors (and in hospitality venues if you're in tier 1) and that you want to support her/are always on the end of the phone etc, but can't meet indoors as an official bubble due to her lodger? That would have been a kinder more clear way of dealing with it and if she still kicked off that would be on her.

PumpkinSpiceGirl · 20/10/2020 06:53

Adult children of single parents stop support bubbles which I think is odd. Especially a single mum with an 18 year old lad still in school.

Agree with this 100%. My DD was 18 during lockdown so technically neither of us are entitled to a ‘bubble’ - I really hate that bloody term! But as she stays at her bf’s at least half the week I’m completely alone during that time and it can be really hard.

I get the rules and why they’re there and that they can’t cover every single situation - the lodger in OP’s scenario is a classic example - but it doesn’t make it easy for people who are without support or company a lot of the time. (I know it’s not easy for anyone but the loneliness is awful).

OP technically you’re right (I think) but maybe try and see it from your friend’s POV a bit.

Velvian · 20/10/2020 07:11

It is against the rules, due to the lodger, but I would do it.

Clymene · 20/10/2020 07:16

@Goosefoot - you don't live in the uk so I have no idea why you're in this thread.

The OP is right - her friend lives with another adult. It doesn't matter who the other adult is, they are considered a household under U.K. tier 2/3 rules so her friend cannot form a support bubble with the OP.

It is okay if the friend is upset by the OP wanting to follow the rules. It's also okay for the OP to follow the rules.

MsQueenInTheNorth · 20/10/2020 07:27

You’re not expected to socially distance from people in your support bubble though, are you? Whereas you are if you’re meeting with people not in your household/support bubble? That was my understanding, although I may well be wrong.

BendingSpoons · 20/10/2020 07:38

Lodgers definitely count as another adult in the household. I have lots of friends in flat shares and they count as a household, which can be tough if they are random people off Gumtree. Students in shared flats are in the same position.

It's really tough when you have a different view. Unfortunately by mentioning the ex first (who doesn't count) I can see why it felt like excuses to her. I'd let the dust settle and then try to chat to her and explain you genuinely would love to be in a bubble with her but you realised the rules don't allow it, and you would feel too anxious breaking the rules.

FWIW I suspect many would plead ignorance in these circumstances.

Clymene · 20/10/2020 07:42

No you're not expected to socially distance within a support bubble @MsQueenInTheNorth - to all intents and purposes, you become a single household.

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