Surgeon has refused to operate on litigious patient

[justasking111]

Long story, friends OH had hip op. all went wrong afterwards infection set in was in hospital three months on iv antibiotics, when home had antibiotics, further surgery needed. Fast forward a few months surgeon has refused to do a further op. because my friend an expert HR person had logged each call, e mail so thoroughly with the hospital admin. and surgeon challenging them when they bull shitted, that the result is he is on morphine which the surgeon will not prescribe will have to go to GP. Now patient is in his fifties not elderly with no prospect of any kind of care. He is going to die isn`t he.

My question is is it reasonable if you question the medical system is it ok to just be kicked to the curb.

AIBU he should be kicked to the kerb
YANBU he should get the op.

@Bunnyfuller

Aaaand the OP disappears.

What a load of nonsense.

Yes.

No one should be forced to do anything that puts them at high risk of being sued. Its not the surgeons fault.

Move hospital/health board/go private. Maybe try and get some insurance that would cover any risk from an operation rather than expecting the hospital to take the risk of being sued.

I agree with PP's, a consultant wouldn't prescribe the morphine long term, it'd fall to the GP.

If they aren't giving him the op it's probably for health/safety reasons.

Is this poppet of a man aware that you’re plastering his details on Mumsnet?

he obviously needs to go elsewhere, why would he even want to go back to the original surgeon

There is a culture of blame shifting and victim blaming in health care alongside a dismissive attitude towards patients, especially those not PLU. Malcom Gladwell and Ben Goldmine have both published on this very subject. Several scandals have come to light, including the women with mesh inserts, where the same MO has applied and lessons certainly are not learnt. But sure, blame the OP.

@Bunnyfuller

Aaaand the OP disappears.

What a load of nonsense.

That's what I thought...

Usually what happens where a patient is undergoing litigation with an NHS hospital is they go elsewhere (still in the NHS) for further treatment.

Your friend's OH needs to ask to be referred to a different consultant (ideally at another hospital)

If I was the surgeon I wouldn’t either!

I’m sorry but infection is a COMMON side effect of surgery- every single surgery you could possibly have lists infection, blood loss and tissue damage as one of the “potential” risks that could happen and it doesn’t automatically mean the surgeon is shit. I just had minor surgery myself and had to sign a form to the effect that I accepted these risks prior to consent to be operated on. Unless the surgeon made a huge mistake or did something stupid during surgery he cannot predict whom will get infected and whom won’t because it depends on multiple factors, one of which is how well the patients cares for their wounds at home and wether they rest or not.

If they are complaining about this surgeon it would be wildly inappropriate for him to operate yet again on someone with an active complaint against him and honestly I’m shocked you would think this was a good idea! 🙄

Rhubarb rhubarb

I really can’t follow your post. What surgery is needed next? What is his wife pushing for?

@parietal

why would this patient want to go back to the same surgeon who got things wrong before? get referred to a different consultant

This - I wouldn't want to go back to someone who I considered incompetent, and presumably the patient did consider them incompetent (or negligent) if they sued.

You say "His flesh is rotting away" - that implies something like necrotising fascilitis which isn't necessarily anyone's fault - it's a horrible condition but is associated with some medical conditions eg diabetes, alcoholism which increase the risk.

Sometimes things happen - awful, but nobody's fault. I can understand a surgeon not wanting to operate on someone who s/he feels has no faith in his/her skill, or who is antagonistic towards them. Would you want to work with someone you felt disliked you intensely andethought you were rubbish?

I feel v. sorry for your friend, but he’s clearly in no condition for further surgery at the moment- and the surgeon wouldn’t have been responsible for his post-op care, which is presumably when the infection set in.

Drs working in the NHS are not allowed to refuse to see patients who have litigated in the past.

It may have been the after care and wound management that caused the infection and not the fault of surgeon?

@tara66

Aren't NHS surgeons insured by NHS so they don't have to sell their house if they lose a malpractice claim against them? And private surgeons take out their own insurance?

No, NHS doctors have to pay for their own insurance annually, as well as their annual registration fee with the General Medical Council (without which they are unable to practice) and, if relevant, annual membership fees to their Royal College (without which they cannot progress through their training). The Royal College exams come at a cost of several hundred pounds a pop and can have a failure rate of 50%. The final exam my friend sat cost £950 and some people were there for the third time.

Have a look at how much surgeons pay for their insurance.

@justasking111
Do I understand it right: surgery went normal but there was an infection afterwards. Sadly this happens, and sometimes despite the best care, it is hard to avoid it. I would even say nosocomial infections are quite common and are part of the risks of any surgery.

Many have an idyllic view of medicine. The reality is, it has limitations to what can be fixed. This is not Hollywood. Sometimes you are left with life changing injuries after a surgery with no fault from anyone.

It is normal to be upset by this, and normal to look for someone to blame. However it is probably bad luck.

Your friend might misinterpret the reluctancy of the surgeon to their record keeping, but it just might be that they know no benefit to the patient can come from the surgery.

Being belligerent might actually make things worse.

We had similar. My step dad in a crash and had the wrong hip pinned - seriously. A catalogue of errors. He was swiftly transported to another trust whilst investigations were ongoing.

@Soletsgotothepubearlierthen

There is a culture of blame shifting and victim blaming in health care alongside a dismissive attitude towards patients, especially those not PLU. Malcom Gladwell and Ben Goldmine have both published on this very subject. Several scandals have come to light, including the women with mesh inserts, where the same MO has applied and lessons certainly are not learnt. But sure, blame the OP.

Did you actually read any of the six pages you are commenting on? Within the very first page there was categorically no evidence of any malfeasance by the NHS, it was not true that any litigation had occurred, and obvious evidence that future surgery at this time was likely to lead to worse outcomes, possibly death. Nobody is blaming the OP for anything unless toy count,, if they are to be believed, plastering half truths at best about someone else's business all over the internet. Their version indicates they either don't have the facts, or, to be frank, they are elaborating and tripping up over conflicting "facts".

There seems to be a lot of missing, or false, information here. Infection after surgery is quite common, it's not the fault of the surgeon, or the hospital. People take surgery far too lightly, there are always risks, and your friend would have signed a consent form to say he understood those risks.
If his infection is as bad as you say, and is ongoing, then of course they won't operate at the moment.

The patient’s not litigious if he hasn’t even seen a solicitor yet.....

It sounds like you don’t know the first thing about what is happening. I doubt anyone can comment on such a garbled mess.

FYI random ignorant person looking at a wound and finding it ‘barf’ is not an indication for surgery.

YABU. He signed the consent from, infection will have been one of the risks explained to him. It sounds like he’s trying to find someone to blame for being in a worse situation but not all hip ops have a great outcome. Also it’s not the surgeon’s job long term to prescribe morphine, it’s the GP.

I dont get this - he hasn't sued the NHS, so he cant be viewed by them as litigious. The surgeon and patient clearly don't have the best relationship for whatever reason, and that is where they are now.
He is entitled to a 2nd opinion (and take heart, I know someone whose life was changed by the 2nd surgeon they saw after the 1st gave up) so thats the direction he must go in.