AIBU to Think MNHQ needs to tackle the ageism on this site?

[LastGoldenDaysOfSummer]

The venom and hate aimed at older people on some of the Covid threads is disgusting. If the same was aimed at disabled, TW or BAME people then the posts would be deleted immediately, and rightly so.

But because it's the elderly it's left to stand, even after being reported. This isn't new, MNHQ has always been a hotbed of ageism but it's usually dealt with when reported.

But not any more. Should they be doing more?

@VinylDetective

but the Older generation as a whole have a disproportionate amount of assets

Of course they do, they’ve spent a life time working and saving for them. It was ever thus.

My parents bought a house in 1969 for £4500.

It was sold in £2914 for £450,000.
Let me assure you they didn't spent those years in penury, scrimping and saving for that. Mum didn't work, dad was 9-5.

They are 100% typical of their generation.

Hell, eight business class trips to Australia doesn't suggest hardship, does it?

What on earth is this magical pension pot? There are loads of pensioners who paid minimal amounts in during their working lives but are living on very comfortable pensions for 30 years or more. Loads who had nice jobs for life and retired on the dot of 60 or 65. Many companies have nightmare pension liabilities because of these people.

The generation after the war are the people who have taken the most and given the least. Zero sympathy for their whining.

Who mentioned penury, scrimping and hardship? They worked and paid for that house. How they spent the proceeds of the sale of a house which inflated in value in line with every other property in the country is completely irrelevant to the argument.

@miljea
Typical of the middle-class generation.

Look at Shelter's website. It documents an interesting history of housing.

You'll very quickly see that your parents are not in any way representative of their whole generation.

People were homeless. Or they were living in what we'd call slums. Then, just as now, many people struggled to rent. Forget buying.

As ever people think their own more fortunate experiences represent their whole generation.

Zero sympathy for their whining

They’re not whining. That’s the prerogative of the generations behind them.

@Theluggage15

What on earth is this magical pension pot? There are loads of pensioners who paid minimal amounts in during their working lives but are living on very comfortable pensions for 30 years or more. Loads who had nice jobs for life and retired on the dot of 60 or 65. Many companies have nightmare pension liabilities because of these people.

The generation after the war are the people who have taken the most and given the least. Zero sympathy for their whining.

Yeah because a small group of people represent everyone...oh wait, no they don't.

Can't see any whining from the elderly btw. Stoicism yes.

Taken the most. Nonsense!
What, thousands of pounds of tax money (on loans that mostly won't ever get paid back) to go to university? Oh no, that's right, the vast majority left school at 15 or 16 and straight into work. I must add it's not the fault of today's students. That's all down to Tony Blair's snake oil 'education, education, education' pyramid scheme.

Stop putting millions of people into tiny little boxes, based on your own narrow life experiences.

In the real world, no one generation is a homogeneous group.

There are huge variations within every generation - income and attitude included.

@VinylDetective

Zero sympathy for their whining

They’re not whining. That’s the prerogative of the generations behind them.

Right anyhow. It's all sorted now.

Problem solved.

From now onwards we encourage young people to smoke and eat lots of cake and crisps.

Never again will we need this argument. No-one lives to pension age. No pension or care costs, and lots of tax revenue to spend on the needs of the present. No need to worry about the future. Win win.

Stop putting millions of people into tiny little boxes, based on your own narrow life experiences.

In the real world, no one generation is a homogeneous group.

There are huge variations within every generation - income and attitude included.

Well said.

They’re not whining. That’s the prerogative of the generations behind them.
Implying that all younger people are whiny is ageist, do better VinylDetective

There are loads of pensioners who paid minimal amounts in during their working lives but are living on very comfortable pensions for 30 years or more

Any evidence for this?

Loads who had nice jobs for life and retired on the dot of 60 or 65

Not so sure about nice jobs for life but why should anyone work after pension age? Also, where's your evidence for this?

CLUE: "Loads" is not not a statistic.

Many companies have nightmare pension liabilities because of these people

Who? Evidence?

Oh, and this:

www.theguardian.com/money/2004/jul/10/pensions.jobsandmoney

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/pension-payments-holiday-to-ease-pressure-on-firms-wjddcv3gn

theconversation.com/britains-great-pension-robbery-why-the-defined-benefits-gold-standard-is-a-luxury-of-the-past-100844

www.ft.com/content/c4217e98-6926-11ea-800d-da70cff6e4d3

The only people getting fucked over here are the pensioners, present and future.

I agree, OP - the ageism is disgusting. Read any covid thread and substitute ‘Jew’ or ‘black’ for ‘elderly’ and one sees the the last tolerable ‘ism’ on Mumsnet

@tillytown

They’re not whining. That’s the prerogative of the generations behind them. Implying that all younger people are whiny is ageist, do better VinylDetective

Check the context, honey. It’s not me who needs to do better.

@ChasedByFox

And please do not conflate ageism with racism. People that are now old were once young. People that.are non-white we're not previously white. They've never had white privilege in a way that older people now once had youth.

Two separate issues, both need addressing.

I agree and also not all racist comments have been dealt with. Some posts went unreported and therefore stayed up, those reported were dealt with. There have been a number of nationalist, racist comments when people have sought their own board for the black community, or the Asian community - many of the responses to that were vile. It’s a different issue and one which many never understand because they’ll never change their heritage.

As for ageism, yes there has been some undeniably. The ‘lock up over 50s and don’t let them ruin our kids lives’. I find that annoying as these people won’t feel that way if we have a pandemic and they’re 50+, equally 50+ isn’t old - most people are in good roles at work, have experience and many still have youngish children at that age. There are also plenty of kinship or foster carers in that age range with kids. Are the offensive posts being reported as I expect it’s difficult to police them without notice being drawn?

@Quaagars

I haven't seen any ageism personally Racism and transphobia on the other hand, yes

Read the thread - there is plenty

YANBU op. The covid threads are raging with ageism and ableism too and it is left there generally by mnhq. It's not that we perceive a discussion about whether the elderly and vulnerable should be sheilded as ageism, but the kind of language used to 'other' them:

They only have months to live anyway.
They're only sat round in soiled nappies all day, what's the point in keeping them alive?
The vulnerable take enough off the state already and now they're ruining the lives of the young and fit.
They all voted Tory so bought it on themselves.

Etc.

Huge generalisations and sweeping language used to minimise and dehumanise. And I see it over and over and over. I am weary with it, as one of those pesky ECV people. Weary.

The Style & Beauty board often has ageist threads "are these old lady shoes?" "help! I look like an old hag!" "can I wear my hair long now I'm 50?"

I'm pleased to say they are being robustly challenged more and more.

@DimityDeNimes

The thread was started to discuss ageism against older people on MN not argue about student infection rates. It's irrelevant

Not according to the title of the thread it wasn't.

The OP is an example of ageism - there's plenty more examples of ageism on this site, against younger and older people.

And yes, I call it out/report it when I see it, before you ask!

Here's a thread for those of you demanding examples of ageism on MN.

There's one right now heading that way in AIBU. Cunningly placed there rather than Coronavirus but it's getting there
Examples recently that I've reported (and which have subsequently been deleted) "I'm not going to sacrifice my family for some random 80 year old with dementia" and a doozy yesterday about the absurdity of protecting "dribbling dementia patients sitting in soiled underwear" over the young people of today.

The ageist posts DO get deleted, but there is a hardcore of astroturfers who, if you look at what they post apart from their ageist bile, seems to indicate the new alt right anti state intervention for the vulnerable it's all about the money tendency. There's a handful of names, that whatever thread you see them on, you know, they're going to trot out the 80 year olds should be dead anyway soon trope.

Ablist posts, racist posts, ageist posts. They all need to be dealt with. It's not a competition.

X post serendipitously.

And that one is mild beyond belief compared to the Covid section ones.

I would like to see a lot less deletion of anyone as we can all cope with it and can look away if we don't. I am over 50 and can take the heat as I am sure women can when men are nasty to us too and vice versa. Let freedom prevail.

However it is true that generalisations about groups of people whether gay, white, female, old and young tend to be a bit unfair as you do have people in those groups who are not the same Eg I have no pension other than state pension at 67 as I have given it ti HMRC (hundreds of thousands of pounds) when I turned 55 as a gift to the nation (well kind of ,...) and to the children for housing so my children have had more than I had but that is not the narrative the young like to hear.

I don't think the CV19 issue is particularly ageist. I am against the lockdown laws on freedom and human rights grounds even though being over 50 I would be likely to die and younger people would not. To that extent I am fighting the corner of the young.

Let us see if we can delete many fewer posts and let freedom prevail -then people can see the views of others, avoid echo chambers and perhaps even be converted to the views of others.

OMG this thread hit the skids

The reason for the pension shortfall wasn't old people fgs, it was dodgy investment by dodgy rich people.

My father was that daemon generation and to choose to pretend that what they went through was privileged is absolutely disgusting.

He was an Irish immigrant builder who worked for a well known building company his whole life. They removed asbestos by hand, there was no health and safety, his pension was a pittance. But thats ok, I guess, because he owned his house.

Ridiculous

[quote CayrolBaaaskin]@SheepandCow - how about less tax after pension age? That’s what we currently have. Despite the fact that care for the elderly and universal state pensions are a huge cost to the state.[/quote]
Only because of lower income. I pay tax on my Teacher's Pension which is less than half of what I earned. As a WASPI I still haven't got my State Pension but when I do it will be taxed.

Other examples: the thread a couple of weeks ago about fatcat boomers (a word which is only ever used abusively) should be MADE by law to give up their nice mortgage free houses to young people who can't afford one. It was as if entire swathes of MN couldn't grasp that those "boomers" hadn't just had that house handed to them (like they were wanting) but had worked, saved, and bought.

Xenia- treading a fine line though. Are you in favour of threads using the N word abusively, or calling the disabled S's? I presume not. Yet you think abuse of the elderly is OK?

I was musing on this, and it's definitely been over the last few years on here that the ageism has taken hold so aggressively. We go from "old bags" tutting at us in Asda, to the thread a couple of weeks ago where an elderly man stopped to exchange a few words with the MNer whose daughter was running round barefoot on the lawn. The exchange was something like "haven't you put your shoes on this morning" to little girl which had the OP wanting to call the police because he was a sicko/paedo/stalker and the OP's husband saying he'd beat him to a pulp if he ever spoke to them again. With the fangirlz cheering. The OP came back to say that through her curtains she'd seen him WALKING UP THE STREET AGAIN so obviously staking the joint. Or going to buy his paper...