AIBU to Think MNHQ needs to tackle the ageism on this site?

[LastGoldenDaysOfSummer]

The venom and hate aimed at older people on some of the Covid threads is disgusting. If the same was aimed at disabled, TW or BAME people then the posts would be deleted immediately, and rightly so.

But because it's the elderly it's left to stand, even after being reported. This isn't new, MNHQ has always been a hotbed of ageism but it's usually dealt with when reported.

But not any more. Should they be doing more?

You get ageism at both end of the spectrum. It’s a fact but get over it. I’m at the older age of the spectrum and my dc is at the younger age. It’s a fact but it must not be a reason to whinge about your life choices. Everyone has a choice - victim or survivor!!

If you find women having to fight to protect their rights funny ...

@earthycarrots - none has “reported” any actual ageism. Just that they think generational generalisations (stated as being such) are unfair because they don’t apply to them. I think it’s fair enough to make such generalisations about other groups too as long as they are stated to be such. No one is pitting anyone against each other but there’s no need to censor social, cultural and political facts. It’s certainly true that the Tory vote is heavily slanted towards the older demographic and so is the brexit vote. Not all older people of course are brexit voting tories (as a pp noted - that’s how statistics works) but there is clearly something there. We can’t and shouldn’t ignore it any more than we would ignore inequality or differences in sex or race.

YANBU
Except that if the same was targeted at the disabled
Sadly ageism seems to go hand in hand with ableism. See all the posts suggesting we all 'just live with it' 'let it kill The Others aka elderly and disabled re Covid.

I think everyone should stop paying tax once they hit 40. No income tax, no VAT, nothing. They're expendable and therefore so is their tax.

I also think it's about time we stop telling people to quit smoking or junk food 'because it shortens your life expectancy'. Or at least make our minds up. We can't tell people off for shortening their life expectancies but then moan about the young 'sacrificing' themselves for the elderly etc etc.

No one is pitting anyone against each other

Did you write that with a straight face?

@DimityDeNimes also you are taking things personally. As I pointed out the post you disagreed with was perfectly accurate and fair. It may not apply to you, but it’s not just about you.

@LastGoldenDaysOfSummer - also what “othering” or implications that they are less worthy? Who is they?

Paintedmaypole
Ageism like any other ism is about prejudice and streotyping. eg old people are right wing, racist, brexiteers, old people are wealthy and don't care about housing problems because they are okay, young people are irresponsible and rude, students are all party animals and drink like fish, old people are judgmental and interfering. It can all be very unfair to individuals, people are pre-judged and dismissed as unimportant. One point I do agree with is that the generations have been successfully set against each other to detract from the real issues.

This^^
I am posting seriously ill from hospital and not able to express myself properly but I want to say please remember also all the intersectionallity of being older, disabled, BAME, females, born with little and acquiring little, making something from nothing a lifetime who never had any share in all that supposed wealth, now supporting children and young adults of all kinds, colour and creeds, whose lives and MH are being destroyed, delayed, damaged.
Do not turn upon each other seeking to other and dismiss, turn towards each other and ask how we can challenge all this awful myth making and bring people to hear, care and support each other and create a different society that values each other, not the shower of shite encouraging hatred blame and division.

I am talking about that group as a generation. Let's see. That generation would have been the people steadily dismantling the public sector since the 80s. Steadily dismantling employment rights. Cashing in on Right to Buy and privatisations of publicly-owned utilities. The generation that oversaw the great leap back into private renting and buy-to-let that had been dismantled by the earlier generations, which is causing widespread poverty everywhere. The generation that has welcomed huge levels of immigration from everywhere, which reduces wages and increases our population and pressure on the infrastructure they have dismantled.

And finally, that is the generation that have taken us out of the EU and removed our EU citizenship rights. So much to thank you for.

What utterly ridiculous generalisations. You couldn’t have proved the point of this thread more comprehensively if you’d tried.

@MrsFezziwig
Agreed. The simplistic ignorant generalisations are staggering. Do people seriously believe that every generation is one homogeneous group?
How, when the reality is staring them in the face? There are some desperately poor pensioners. There are some extremely rich young people. It's varied.

Frankly some of the invective older members apply to students and school children on those threads is appalling - they really should know better....

So is it purely in reference to Covid threads?

@Londonmummy66

Frankly some of the invective older members apply to students and school children on those threads is appalling - they really should know better....

@Londonmummy66 Judge a very large group by the actions of a few??? No thank you. People - of all ages - are individuals. Bad ones in every generation.

@SecretSpAD

*I haven't seen any "ageism" on here but I do think young and old are at odds with one another. obviously covid is an age issue though because it massively affects the older more so obviously the question is raised whether it would be better for the younger of us to get on with life and keep our economy going and just isolate the elderly, instead of isolating everyone when most of us will be fine. I think theres also a case of young people feeling like the elderly aren't as invested in our economic future since they wont have to suffer through it with us. I also think younger people have grown up with older people being ageist against them so there's no bond between the two generations, and now those "youths" have actual voices and are able to vote its caused conflict. We got right shit off older people just for existing when I was a teenager.*

And a prime example right here.

I'm 51 believe me I am still working full time and very invested in the economic future of this company. Take all over 50's out of the workforce and then see this country collapse.

Being 51 I've lived through the 70's and the 3 day week; Thatcher - nuff said; Ive seen interest rates rise out of control overnight to 15% plunging many of the most vulnerable people in society into poverty and on the streets; I lived through a time of 3 million people unemployed; the 90's and the recession there.....oh and the recession in 2008 not to mention austerity.

So no, people my age and older know nothing about economic collapse and suffering ffs 🤔

Sorry, you’re51 and lived through the 3 day week! I’m 46 and lived through it too, but as a child, like you. Don’t be so disingenuous.

Still I like the idea of no tax after 40.
I think I might set up a petition.

@SheepandCow - wealth, particularly housing and pension wealth is disproportionately held by the older generation. It’s not as simple as saying there are some younger people with big mortgage free homes, there are but the Older generation as a whole have a disproportionate amount of assets.

It’s like the gender pay gap. Me a as a whole out earn women. But that doesn’t apply to all men - some of whom are don’t earn much at all and are outearned by their spouses. But as a sex overall men out earn women.

@SheepandCow - how about less tax after pension age? That’s what we currently have. Despite the fact that care for the elderly and universal state pensions are a huge cost to the state.

but the Older generation as a whole have a disproportionate amount of assets

Of course they do, they’ve spent a life time working and saving for them. It was ever thus.

@Nanny0gg

My ageism issue on here is the fact that once you get to a certain age, you are incapable of making decisions for yourself.

It's primarily covid-related. All the posts about 'shielding the elderly' - define 'elderly'

Should I stop my sister seeing our parents - ask them not decide for them

My mum/dad/aunty insists on going to the shops even though I've offered to do their shopping - they wear masks, they take precautions. Let them decide!

Etc, etc. Stop infantilizing people over the age of 60! You won't like it when it's your turn!

Yes! I've posted on so many threads, saying the same. I'm starting to dread this happening to me. FFS these are grown people, not toddlers.

Some people on here are going to get such a shock when their own kids start treating them as though they know nothing and think they should make decisions for them.

wealth, particularly housing and pension wealth is disproportionately held by the older generation

Of course. They've spent four or five decades paying into those pensions. And two or three paying the mortgage on that house.

Good grief. Use a bit of logic here.

[quote CayrolBaaaskin]@SheepandCow - wealth, particularly housing and pension wealth is disproportionately held by the older generation. It’s not as simple as saying there are some younger people with big mortgage free homes, there are but the Older generation as a whole have a disproportionate amount of assets.

It’s like the gender pay gap. Me a as a whole out earn women. But that doesn’t apply to all men - some of whom are don’t earn much at all and are outearned by their spouses. But as a sex overall men out earn women.[/quote]
I don't understand your point @CayrolBaaaskin
It's all very well talking about proportions but for actual individual human beings that means little.

It's of no help or comfort to the many pensioners living in poverty. What do you want? Them to continue struggling and suffering, as they have done their whole lives because a more fortunate stranger they've never met is a similar age to them?

Today's elderly were born before the creation of the welfare state and the NHS. Many of them know poverty.

The reality is it's class, income, good health, and luck, that etermines your financial position in life. Not your age.

Every generation has a fortunate middle class. There's also a very unfortunate struggling working class.

A minority of rich people don't represent or make any difference to the majority of everyday individuals.

Meanwhile we have the forgotten generation. The overlooked middle-aged. Missed out on social housing but too old for Help to Buy schemes.

I think this thread just about proves the OP's point .

It is really unpleasant from all angles .

@MayYouLiveInInterestingTimes

I think that the entirety of the UK needs to tackle its ageism, never mind Mumsnet.

The inequalities between the lives of the baby boomers - the wealth and opportunities they had and have and have been steadily removing from those behind them - and those of us who have to work to support their luxury, is appalling.

Hear hear.

And I speak as a 57 year old.

[quote CayrolBaaaskin]@SheepandCow - how about less tax after pension age? That’s what we currently have. Despite the fact that care for the elderly and universal state pensions are a huge cost to the state.[/quote]
Many pensioners pay a lot of tax. Tax isn't just on employment. They pay tax on income, on savings, and through VAT.

Pensions are a huge cost to the state? Good job today's pensioners paid in to the pot for decades then isn't it.

Of course we could just stop moaning at people for smoking and eating cake.

Tell your kids. Don't want to pay pension or social care cost? Smoke and eat and be merry.

It's clear that many people, posting with their narrow experience of a sheltered comfortable middle class life, can't possibly understand that many people didn't have the same good fortune as them.

Just because some 50,60,70, and older somethings on here had good lives - right to buy, buy to let, etc does not mean everyone else of their generation had the same.

Aside from people (like my own grandparents) who refused to take advantage of right to buy out of moral principle, lots of people couldn't afford it.

Life was tough for many. Always has been regardless of era.

And guess what? Lots of people never even managed to get a council home in the first place. That's right.

The supposed golden years for social housing did not include everyone. Lots of people were homeless in the 60s, 70s, and 80s. Or in shabby decrepit private rents.

Affluent middle-class do not represent a whole generation. That applies equally to the 'Boomers' and today's youth.