AIBU to Think MNHQ needs to tackle the ageism on this site?

[LastGoldenDaysOfSummer]

The venom and hate aimed at older people on some of the Covid threads is disgusting. If the same was aimed at disabled, TW or BAME people then the posts would be deleted immediately, and rightly so.

But because it's the elderly it's left to stand, even after being reported. This isn't new, MNHQ has always been a hotbed of ageism but it's usually dealt with when reported.

But not any more. Should they be doing more?

Ageism can be bad here. So can the unchallenged and unmoderated anti-Americanism.

@VinylDetective

But they had financial benefits that the younger generation won’t have which are now being paid for by them

It works both ways. Younger generations are benefiting from free childcare and school meals paid for by older generations who didn’t have them. It’s swings and roundabouts.

Yes. Also maternity and sick pay.

Women could legally be sacked for being pregnant. And, in the 1970s employers were still openly advertising for male applicants only.

Marital rape was legal until the 1990s.

The older generation certainly didn't have an easy ride.

[quote CayrolBaaaskin]@RainingBatsAndFrogs - there has been huge house price inflation over a long period of time and a failure to build enough affordable housing. Pensions are by far the most expensive part of the welfare budget but while austerity cut everything else, pensions were actually raised. Childcare for 3-5 year olds has a tiny cost in comparison to elderly care. The younger generations do have benefits older people didn’t which is to be expected as things change. Overall though the young have definitely done very badly out of it.[/quote]
The Young are not one homogeneous group. Nor are The elderly.

Many people within both groups have had and continue to have their struggles. Others in both groups are doing very nicely indeed thank you very much.

I've already detailed the solution for later on in life.

The tax funded schools can teach children that when they hit adulthood they should smoke and eat lots of cake. Helps deal with life's stresses - and saves tons on pension and social care costs. Brings in lots of tax money at the same time. Win win.

Live in unsafe lodgings with Rachman style landlords who'll beat you (or your husband) up if they want you out, have your children taken off you if you become homeless or even just a single mum. Rent a shabby flat with no gas, fire, or electrical safety.

Do you think that this isn’t happening now??

It’s true there is no work for teenagers now, and little work in fact for anyone.

Beyond that baby boomers who think those of us under 50 know nothing of hardship really need to take the blinkers they accuse us of having off. As someone said, there has always been hardship. What you don’t see, won’t see, is that it is on the increase.

I’m in my 40s incidentally.

I think in general ageism in society as a whole is awful. Elderly people aren’t any less than a young person in my view.

My elderly mum who was living on a state pension paid for all her home care at 15 quid an hour.

@Northernsoulgirl45

My elderly mum who was living on a state pension paid for all her home care at 15 quid an hour.

Please tell me this isn’t true. Unless she had more than £23.5k in the bank.

If I wrote a message saying that BAME people are selfish because they are refusing to stay at home so white people don't have to then I'd rightly be banned yet I have seen it said that over 50s should stay at home so everybody else can get on with their life as normal.

Quite!

It does mostly seem to be the Covid threads. It's really worrying to think that there are people out there who think I should die rather than them being stopped from going to the pub.

It’s true there is no work for teenagers now, and little work in fact for anyone.

What utter rubbish! Perhaps this is true of the unskilled/unqualified, but most people are still in work.

@Jaxhog

It’s true there is no work for teenagers now, and little work in fact for anyone.

What utter rubbish! Perhaps this is true of the unskilled/unqualified, but most people are still in work.

That won’t be the case in six months’ time. Unemployment is going to hit heights not seen since the 80s.

@60sbird

I became a mum at 17, a nan at 39 and I have a teenager (18) and I’m 53, when I go on gransnet you really can tell they are a lot older, the talk is very tame and dare I say it .. it’s boring, I much prefer mumsnet

😲 You were a grandma in your thirties?!?!?! Wow

Again no one is saying the boomers are all rich. But they had financial benefits that the younger generation won’t have which are now being paid for by them.

This is such ageism. Back in the day, many jobs had non-contributory pensions. But if you left (or were booted out/made redundant) within 5 years, you lost it.

ALL generations have winners and losers, so it's unfair and inaccurate to blame any one generation.

I think that part of the problem with Covid specifically is that it gets portrayed as a binary issue: either you're elderly and then you're sure to die if you catch it, or you're younger and then you're at no risk at all. There is also a misunderstanding of the fact that most people who died of Covid had an underlying condition: this gets interpreted as meaning that they were practically at death's door already, and that Covid only slightly hastened what would have soon happened anyway. In fact, about 40% of the population have some sort of chronic health condition, which in most cases, if treated properly, is compatible with a normal or near-normal life expectancy.

As regards ageism more generally, this seems to have increased in recent times - in both directions. There was always some tendency for older people to resent teenagers, and for elders to be stereotyped as 'past it' and more unpleasantly as useless eaters. But the current tendency to pit 'selfish boomers' against 'snowflake millennials' and for each group to regard the other as spoilt and overprivileged is much worse than it was some years ago. I think some of the Brexit debates have contributed to this worsening. Perhaps it's also more noticeable, because racism and sexism are quite rightly frowned upon in many quarters nowadays, whereas people can still get away with ageism to a greater extent.

@VinylDetective she had much less than that in savings msybe 6K but did receive some state top ups due to her ill health. It was still pretty shit though.

That won’t be the case in six months’ time. Unemployment is going to hit heights not seen since the 80s.

I agree that it will probably get worse before it gets better. I remember the 80s. I also remember that it got better quickly then too.

What I don't agree with is the generalization that there are NO jobs. This is alarmist and just not true.

@MayYouLiveInInterestingTimes

Live in unsafe lodgings with Rachman style landlords who'll beat you (or your husband) up if they want you out, have your children taken off you if you become homeless or even just a single mum. Rent a shabby flat with no gas, fire, or electrical safety.

Do you think that this isn’t happening now??

It’s true there is no work for teenagers now, and little work in fact for anyone.

Beyond that baby boomers who think those of us under 50 know nothing of hardship really need to take the blinkers they accuse us of having off. As someone said, there has always been hardship. What you don’t see, won’t see, is that it is on the increase.

I’m in my 40s incidentally.

Why ask me a question you already know the answer to? You must've read my post as you're (selectively) quoting from it.

You will have seen me pointing out that every generation has inequality within their generation.

But actually, whilst private renting is terrible in England, the issues I referred to aren't generally still happening now. Other problems yes including dreadful insecurity of tenure - but a landlord 'getting the boys round' simply doesn't happen on anything like a scale it used to.

And women are no longer having their children taken into care because of being homeless. In fact they're guaranteed housing (albeit not necessarily decent homes).

Yes things are still terrible housing wise for many people. And that's the point. Nothings changed. Housing is a problem today for many. As it was in our parent's and grandparents day.

Those who did ok do NOT represent their whole generation. However much some people want to jump up and down and insist otherwise.

Re getting work. It's varied today. Often it's easier for young people. The lower minimum wage means the young are preferred by employers looking for cheap labour. It's known that the over 50s (or even over 40s) often struggle the most to find new employment after redundancy. There's a huge amount of age discrimination by employers.

@SheepandCow - we are talking about generational inequality. As I said that’s why we are talking about groups. Not everyone is the same in every group- there are men who earn less than women but the gender pay gap still exists. We are comparing groups not individuals.

Your grandparents had council housing available to them and the right to buy. Same as their generation. That’s not available any more to dds generation.

I don’t agree with right to buy either and neither did my grandparents who lived in council housing for at least 50 years without buying, as they didn’t agree. But that’s irrelevant - the point is that generation had council housing readily available unlike modern day young people who have few available affordable housing options.

Also I am Middle Aged and affordable housing and some council housing absolutely was available when I was younger. Not to the same extent as to my parents but it was.

@SheepandCow - your claims about housing show you just don’t understand the issue. The availability of social housing between my grandparents and parents generation and my and my dds generation is stark. You have to look at a generation above that before you see anything like it.

@CayrolBaaaskin
Yes the Right to Buy has drastically depleted council housing. I never claimed otherwise. In fact the disgrace of Right to Buy and the need for more council housing is a pet issue of mine. It's something I bang on about repeatedly across threads.

However, more availability does NOT mean everyone had access to it. In any era. Rachman landlords wouldn't have existed if there'd been access to council housing for all.

It's ridiculous to generalise by generation. Some parts of the country even today have good availability of social housing.

You obviously had it better than other people of your own age group. Good for you but you can't ignore the fact that not everyone of your generation has had the same easy housing experiences you say you've had.

It was increasingly difficult in many parts of the country to access council housing by the 90s (for lots of places, even before).
Affordable and council housing may have been available where you live but it most certainly wasn't for a large number of now middle-aged people.

The fastest growing group of private renters are 40+. I very much doubt most chose private renting over council. Clearly they haven't been able to access council housing.

There were also other different hardships for previous generations. I've posted about some of them.

Again. Some people's experiences do not represent a whole generation. Even if they're the most focused or reported on. The less reported overlooked others exist too. Whatever age group.

I go by the post, not the poster and wanting to take pension credits and heating allowence from skint pensioners strikes me as particularly heartless.

Me too. Funny how you can take issue with any number of posters on here but certain ones just can’t be criticised.

A few months ago I was on a thread with others who had lost jobs during the last lockdown and found ourselves thrust into the barely functioning job market.

Several of us were over 50, including me. We were specifically told by another poster that we should not be searching for jobs because they were needed by young people and we had had our chances. We should therefore now step back even if that meant not being able to pay our bills.

I thought that was pretty ageist. It was left to stand though.

Ageism can be bad here. So can the unchallenged and unmoderated anti-Americanism

Agreed - though TBF it’s not generally the case that Americans are depicted at people whose lives are ‘lesser’ and not worth living let alone saving

If I wrote a message saying that BAME people are selfish because they are refusing to stay at home so white people don't have to then I'd rightly be banned yet I have seen it said that over 50s should stay at home so everybody else can get on with their life as normal

Quite!

It does mostly seem to be the Covid threads. It's really worrying to think that there are people out there who think I should die rather than them being stopped from going to the pub

Quite

I suspect Covid is just bring the worst out in many different kinds of people and we should just relax and try on an individual basis to be kind to everyone as we don't know their individual struggles. It has been the case since at least the 1970s that racism is regarded as worse than sexism in the UK (and a form of age discrimination became unlawful only much more recently). it is just how it is in public perception and views.

On facts - 1982when I graduated had the worst unemployment for 50 years in the UK at 3m (when we had a lower population than now) although I suspect that was based no pure number rather than comparing how many people in the UK 50 years before etc. Without doubt it was worse then in percentage and in numbers terms although next year with our much bigger population we may exceed it by percentage of population. I remember it was hard to get a council house - 20 year waits and as tenants could stay for life under the rent acts often on very low rents (we still have those regulated rents for those properties still tenanted since then - you can look them up by your postcode) there were hardly any private rentals. The assured shorthold which allows landlords to get properties back changed that so at least if you are in a full time job there tends to be something to rent in most cities and I do regard that as an improvement.

I am happy for people to post what they choose. It can make some people feel better and get frustrations out, but certainly we have old people who are not well off in the UK and many don't have anything other than their state pension.

@Topseytop that is awful.