Kids snacks at school - white carbs twice before lunch

[prettyflowersinthesky]

DD is in y4.

I seriously don't want to be "that" parent so am wondering on the consensus on this.

DD's school has started giving the whole school's kids stodgy white carbs with jam twice before lunchtime (bagels).

Once when they arrive in the morning, and then again at break time.

DD is coming home with most of her lunch uneaten.

I fully appreciate about food poverty and that giving the kids food in this blanket way is a way of addressing that without singling out or embarrassing hungry children or families.

But I question

1. Whether or not the white carbs plus jam is appropriate nutrition
2. Whether or not most kids really need this
3. Whether or not two snacks between breakfast and lunch is excessive

There is no requirement for the kids to take and eat the snacks but to say to my child not to take them when the other kids are seems unfair.

I'm a bit torn, and certainly don't want to deny hungry kids access to food. But also wonder if the school needs to give this twice and also maybe the nutritional content of the snacks could be improved (e.g. fruit, whole grain snacks or something instead). I do appreciate that kids need more carbs than adults.

What does everyone think? Is this appropriate? I feel for the vast majority of kids without food poverty issues this is not necessary, so by serving all the kids a snack it is enforcing bad snacking habits, poor food choices as well as encouraging childhood obesity.

In many very healthy countries no snacking is allowed although I appreciate for very young children it may be necessary.

I am wondering whether or not to speak to the school about my concerns about them finding a better way to address the issues for the hungry kids.

But I do not want to speak up if I am seriously misinformed about all of this, hence interested in your responses. Thanks.

Yanbu = this is not appropriate / YABU - give the kids the snacks

never have I said children that need it should be denied food.

So do you only offer it to those children in need?
Make them stand up and be noticed amongst their peers as the ones who are hungry through no fault of their own?

Fair more pleasant for all if those children who aren't hungry cold just say no thanks you, and at 8y they can do this.

I agree with you OP. There is zero nutrition in white bagels with jam. Food poverty is not just about calories, in fact it's much less about calories than about nutrition. Children living in poverty can often be overweight and malnourished at the same time and I don't think it's precious to point that out to the school.

Arm yourself with the facts and have a positive conversation with the head.

@CakeGirl2020 what about the parents that would rather spend that money on drugs and alcohol, just let them starve? Not every bodies parents put them first or are well enough to make difficult decisions to make sure their children are provided for. It takes a lot of work and careful planning to make a small amount of money go far and plan nutritious menus, not everyone has that ability.

Can't you fed your child some eggs or Greek yogurt for breakfast and then a salad /homous and carrot sticks etc for lunch?

Encourage your child to make better food choices and become more active?

No you CBA, you'd rather other people's children go hungry because yours is a bit fat!

@JellyBabiesSaveLives it might be you that doesn’t have a clue? If you are still buying into the 1980’s notion that fat=bad?
Processed carbs are far less filling long term and more damaging to health than fats from nuts!

Give her scrambled egg for breakfast. Then she has bagels at school for snack. Don’t give her a sandwich for lunch. Sorted!

I think it sounds fine tbh. As you say, a lot of kids don’t get given breakfast and need it.

I think you said on the first page this is yr8? I sort of thought at first it was little kids, and therefore maybe too much, but I think preteens / young teens often need the energy.

I let my dd in y 7 take in a bagel with cream cheese quite often and through this was reasonable healthy! I think the emphasis on fruit in schools isn’t always good as it doesn’t really fill you up at all. My then I keep my primary kids on the milk list so this can keep them going a bit better.

@RhymesWithOrange

I agree with you OP. There is zero nutrition in white bagels with jam. Food poverty is not just about calories, in fact it's much less about calories than about nutrition. Children living in poverty can often be overweight and malnourished at the same time and I don't think it's precious to point that out to the school.

Arm yourself with the facts and have a positive conversation with the head.

Zero nutrition?

From the Magic Breakfast website, they provide:

Special recipe Bagel Nash bagels (made using a mix of wholemeal and white flour; free from preservatives, artificial additives and e-numbers; low in saturated fat; a good source of fibre and Vitamin D

parents who are unable to provide their children with breakfast can drop their children a little earlier (along with children attending breakfast club, so no stigma) and they can eat then.

We did this pre Covid for our vulnerable children. They were invited to breakfast club free of charge, some were persuaded strongly to come.

However, due to Covid restrictions in schools this isn't possible in all schools now. Due you know all the different bubble rules and more there are to work through?

“There's a research paper that suggests that 86% of primary children have had breakfast before school“

That’s not 86% of every school though, some could be 100% and others 20%! They won’t be aware of every kid going without so they give all the option, if they singled out kids that needed it a stigma would be attached. From a child that was starving until getting their free school meal as both parents were made redundant please don’t cause a scene. It was my only meal some days as we lived on a crumpet for tea and no breakfast. The school I work at has a high amount of poverty, 81% are pupil premium of the ones that aren’t I would hazard a guess that the ones that don’t qualify aren’t hugely better off either, food poverty is much worse than I think people realise. I went through it and didn’t even realise.

38% of our diet should be carb based in terms of the eat well guide, adapt your meals around it to be veg and protein based to balance it out if you are massively concerned.

I find this total food obsession exasperating beyond belief. When mass catering they have to pick something that the majority will eat and that is quick and easy to prepare and presumably cheap. It will be a godsend for many children and for those that don't need it, lucky them. Give your daughter less breakfast, less lunch, feed her extra veg at tea, give less carbs at weekend if it really bothers you. But really, just chill. There is enough real stuff to worry about in this world without stressing about complementary bagels.

My DD has breakfast at home (cereal), goes to breakfast club and has cereal (2 weetabix and toast apparently), 1/2 a bagel with the register, fruit for snack, school lunch, and then eats with us at home for dinner (plus an after school snack).

I literally do not give a toss. She's skinny as a rake and very active (y2). Children are meant to eat a large amount of carbs aren't they? If my daughter suddenly had weight issues or health issues I would obviously act on it.

DS on the other hand eats a lot less generally but is a grazer. I don't begrudge him eating as many carbs as he wants at the same point as his sister. He's small for his age.

It's not just people who can't afford to feed their kids so We mid don't it breakfast. Some like my daughter won't eat breakfast early because she's not hungry. We tried giving her breakfast to start with and she's just sit there until it was time for school

Trying to guess who needs it and who doesn’t just doesn’t work. Nobody knows what goes on behind closed doors and sometimes until the wheels fall of completely nobody knows their is an issue at all.

That’s why having these things widely accessible is so important

I went to a school in a very poor area. What I think you are missing is that for some kids those bagels may well be the only food they're getting that day. In that situation, sugary& carby is good. Will provide more energy for them than an apple. I once gave a dollar from my lunch money to a kid in my class at lunchtime, to buy sweets- he put it in his pocket because his mum could get a whole loaf of bread for that.
I voted YANBU though because I do see that that leaves potential for a lot of kids who are lucky enough to have food at/from home to eat more than they need to.
I don't know what the answer is but in your position I would just work on letting my children know about healthy eating; that they don't eat the bagel unless hungry etc etc. I wouldn't intervene with school. You will be that parent and they've likely weighed pros and cons already.

What happened to fruit snacks?

I think some people genuinely don’t realise what the food poverty situation is like for some families. We also have 15 families across the school who qualify for a food parcel for over the weekend (through a different charity), these are delivered to the school from Asda on a Friday and given to the eldest child in the family in a carrier bag to take home. Includes things like a bag of pasta, jar of pasta sauce, packet of biscuits etc. One week there was a delay with the delivery and it hadn’t arrived by hometime on Friday. We had one mum beside herself crying in the main reception as she physically didn’t know how she was going to feed her children that weekend.

If she is 8 then she is old enough to say no thanks. If she is bringing home her lunch then she is choosing the bagel over her lunch. Explain the reasons why you don't want this to her. There may be a higher proportion of children who don't eat breakfast in your area.

My 3yo will only eat yoghurt for breakfast, I appreciate when preschool give toast etc for snack because I know he’ll be hungry by then!

They may have someone donating bagels. I agree a different spread would be better. Jam is crap for teeth, and not exactly promoting healthy eating.

A national study won’t indicate the level of food poverty at your child’s school.

I’d be surprised if they get an entire bagel. Are you sure they don’t get given half?

Just tell your child not to eat it, or ask the teacher not to let her take it. I doubt they’ll be bothered if they know your kid will have had breakfast.

What happened to fruit snacks?

The free school fruit snacks are only available for key stage 1 i think.

Also, to get the same level of calories, etc you need much more fruit than what the free snacks offer.

Surely there must be a better way to feed the kids who haven’t had breakfast, without feeding all the kids who have?

I can't think of a way of doing that that doesn't also single them out and, potentially, stigmatise them.

I'd hate to go back to how it was in my schooldays, when everyone knew which kids got free school meals and bullies took the piss out of them.

Carbs are not the devil's handiwork, and they are more filling than fruit, and at least the children who are not getting any breakfast at home will be satisfied enough to be able to concentrate on their work. If you would rather she didn't eat it, then fine. Simply tell her not to. But the bagels may be all the school can budget for.

Your child doesn't need to take a bagel, she won't be forced by anyone and by Y4 should be able to say no thank you I'm not hungry.

DD's school launches this exact scheme tomorrow and I think its brilliant. Schools in England are only eligible for support from magic breakfasts if they have a minimum of 35% of pupils eligible for pupil premium but it levels the playing field for everyone because actually, it might not be the children entitled to pupil premium going hungry every morning for any number of reasons.

Is it two whole bagels though or half a bagel for breakfast and one half for snack?