Kids snacks at school - white carbs twice before lunch

[prettyflowersinthesky]

DD is in y4.

I seriously don't want to be "that" parent so am wondering on the consensus on this.

DD's school has started giving the whole school's kids stodgy white carbs with jam twice before lunchtime (bagels).

Once when they arrive in the morning, and then again at break time.

DD is coming home with most of her lunch uneaten.

I fully appreciate about food poverty and that giving the kids food in this blanket way is a way of addressing that without singling out or embarrassing hungry children or families.

But I question

1. Whether or not the white carbs plus jam is appropriate nutrition
2. Whether or not most kids really need this
3. Whether or not two snacks between breakfast and lunch is excessive

There is no requirement for the kids to take and eat the snacks but to say to my child not to take them when the other kids are seems unfair.

I'm a bit torn, and certainly don't want to deny hungry kids access to food. But also wonder if the school needs to give this twice and also maybe the nutritional content of the snacks could be improved (e.g. fruit, whole grain snacks or something instead). I do appreciate that kids need more carbs than adults.

What does everyone think? Is this appropriate? I feel for the vast majority of kids without food poverty issues this is not necessary, so by serving all the kids a snack it is enforcing bad snacking habits, poor food choices as well as encouraging childhood obesity.

In many very healthy countries no snacking is allowed although I appreciate for very young children it may be necessary.

I am wondering whether or not to speak to the school about my concerns about them finding a better way to address the issues for the hungry kids.

But I do not want to speak up if I am seriously misinformed about all of this, hence interested in your responses. Thanks.

Yanbu = this is not appropriate / YABU - give the kids the snacks

@Dinomum2

I think YABU but I see your point. Our school also got the funding for the bagles last year. They just served them plain though which I think is better as it stops the kids just taking them for a sugar rush. You probably have a higher percentage of kids not being fed well at your school like ours. It reduced behaviour issues at our school which is quite sad as it just shows the kids were hungry. I don't know how school could get round it without making those kids stand out.

No and those kids won’t always be known.

The only way to tackle is to make changes for your own child, by either telling them not to eat the bagels or changing their breakfast/lunch to incorporate less carbs. Personally I would do the latter as it’s easier.

I don’t think your child has food issues as some would suggest. Children that age want to fit in with their peers and although bagels and jam are not particularly healthy, they are very attractive to young kids. I would think it’s fairly difficult to say no when everyone else is having one.

It's frightening to see how little insight some people have into how bad life can sometimes be for others

I've taught in a school where some children eat NOTHING from the time they go home till they come to school the next day. Or tea is a packet of crisps or whatever they can forage for themselves. Food poverty is very real. Deprivation is very real. Neglect is very real.

Lots of useful suggestions from other PPs regarding what you could do. Send your child in with their own playtime snack of your choice.

The bagels served at my school are wholemeal, they are provided because of high food poverty where I teach.

Really not good IMO and if it were me I would be very unhappy.
I have a child in Y4 currently. Bagels are an occasional lunch item and jam is not a healthy filling.
By giving two bagels per day (or even one if it’s two halves) with jam you are spiking the childs insulin levels twice in once morning. This stores fat and is the major reason for weight gain.
The fact that so many people think eating two bagels with jam per day (or even one) gives an insight into why we have a huge obesity crisis in the UK. Eating this crap is not ok for anyone much less children.
It really doesn’t matter if the child has had a healthy breakfast or lunch, they shouldn’t be eating that many bagels at all.
Poor kids need even better care, not crappy bagels and jam!
Most year 4 children would have a really hard time resisting a sweet snack like this if ordered and if all friends were eating it and quite frankly it’s not ok to put that responsibility on their shoulders.
It’s up to us as parents, teacher, adults to teach kids what’s health and what’s an occasional treat. This is a huge responsibility and it makes my blood boil that so many adults are failing this generation of kids so badly.

The school where I am a governor has a budget of 11p per child per day to provide this kind of additional food for the children. Half of this budget comes from donations from teachers, parents, governors and the wider community. Without these donations, they would have 5.6p per child per day.

If it matters very much to you, donate money to the school to buy better food, campaign for more money for schools, encourage your child not to take food they don't need to save money to buy food for those that do. Or come up with a perfectly nutritionally balanced snack that the school can produce at break time for every child in the school for a cost of 2.8p or less. I am sure they would be glad of your suggestions.

They’re not giving fruit because you need a lot of it to get the same calories, it’s expensive, it takes longer to eat.

Half a bagel, jam - 169 cals, 39 carbs, 1 fat
Banana, apple, 2 satsumas - 169 cals, 40 carbs, 1 fat

And for reference -
Small Bowl of porridge, peanut butter - 169 Cals, 13 carbs, 10 fat
So fewer carbs but more fat. Obviously not bunging the peanut butter on would solve that.

And CakeGirl - You Have No Idea. Really.

@EvilPea

I have to admit I struggle to afford fruit. other than child benefit we aren’t eligible for anything. But fruit is expensive. I buy frozen to chuck in stuff, but that’s not feasible for the school. It’s also really annoying when youve stretched yourself to buy some and you get mouldy or damaged stuff in a new box.

Most tinned fruit is just as nutritious as fresh, if not more so, and less expensive so you could serve that at home. Fruit cocktail with breakfast cereal is nice and with custard in the evening or just on its own. Keep small tins of evaporated milk in cupboard to make warm drinks and custard (or large tins if there are a few of you).

Sometimes, you see a bag of satsumas or small apples on offer quite cheaply which would make a decent school snack. Bananas can be cheap too.

I do hope your circumstances improve. I was very hard up years ago so you have my sympathy.

Agree with the people who suggest that the easiest way to tackle this is to send your DD with a healthy and low carb lunch, to balance the unhealthy snacks.

I do think the OP is getting an unnecessarily hard time for raising reasonable concerns. Child obesity is a real thing.

YANBU. I can see why they give the kids food, but two jam bagels before lunch time really isn't great. With childhood obesity and diabetes on the rise, this is not a good way to feed kids.

Obviously it's your responsibility to feed her healthily at home, but it sounds like you already do. It's not reasonable for you to have to adapt your normal, healthy eating habits in order to counteract unhealthy food that you don't even want school to give your child in the first place!

Shocking waste of resources, overfeeding the kids who have plenty to eat at home. Have they heard of childhood obesity? I’d be livid if my kids school shovelled a load of unnecessary crap in their mouths while needing to do raffles to buy books. Utterly bonkers.

Surely there must be a better way to feed the kids who haven’t had breakfast, without feeding all the kids who have? And no child that age needs a mid morning snack. They’re not toddlers. So the break time bagel can’t be justified at all.

I’d be asking for the money instead, and spend it on educational resources.

I’d definitely be speaking to the school about this.

Some children are capable of self restraint, not all of them have no impulse control whatsoever

Ah, the Not All Kids argument. No need for a cats bum face, just congratulate yourself on being the perfect parent with the perfect child.

The great majority of kids will however, were raised by ordinary, barely adequate parents like me and would do exactly what mine would have done which is precisely why its a not a great solution for any of the kids.

Can anyone really not afford a value loaf of bread & jam or a box of value cornflakes to feed a child breakfast before school? I mean come on, any decent parent would go without so the child could have breakfast

Can anyone really not understand the appalling levels of poverty a (thankfully small) minority of families in the UK have to endure?

The combination of high rents and the benefit cap is brutal. I've worked with families who have less than £70 pw to feed and clothe 4 people, after paying their rent, utilities and council tax. And that's in so-called "affordable" housing.

right back at you.

£70 per week for a family of 4. Still can’t provide a child with cornflakes and UHT milk or bread and jam?
I’m not saying on £70 they are going to eat like kings or have top quality organic dinners, but providing a child with enough breakfast to take the rumble off the belly- 100% possible.

Food, toiletries, cleaning/laundry materials and replacing essential items, including clothing, for a family of 4 on £60 is really tough
Tough Yes, but doable. You could provide a child with something for breakfast, anything.

Some people would really benefit from volunteering in a food bank and hearing how dreadfully poor some people are in this country. Maybe if everyone did this, they'd stop voting for governments that perpetuate this level of poverty
🙄 Actually I have volunteered at our local food bank 1 full day per week for the last 18 months. I also donate food each week. I am yet to meet a parent that will say they have starved the child. I have had parents crying that they had limited food and stretched it out for as long as they could for the wee one and went hungry themselves. Often they have had dc with them, the dc always look happy enough so I assume not hungry. I’ve not see one child where I thought they look ill/ like they’ve not been cared for.

Even when I was growing up My Mum & Dad didn’t have much ( mum with mental health issues didn’t work, Dad low factory wage) no food banks in them days. I can’t however remember not being fed once, we didn’t have grand meals but cornflakes/ porridge, beans on toast were provided at the very least. They never let us go hungry. Sometimes in winter we were cold even under our duvets in the living room Huddled together but never were we hungry. I’m in a better pace money wise now, hence why I help the food bank by giving my time for free and food.

When you are a parent you beg, you borrow, you go without yourself, you look in to food banks but you do not let your child go hungry. No excuses.
Yes some parents are shit and leave a child hungry for abuse but most parents are good, loving and would do anything to feed that child-Anything.

There isn't a lot of nutrition in a white bagel with jsm. It's mostly just energy. Esoecially poor children need to eat more healthy food because they might not get enough at home. Wholeweat with for example cheese would be so much better. Could you talk to the school about a healthier choice? And stop giving her breakfast would help. If all her friends eat it she probably won't want ti be the odd one out not eating it.

I’ve only read the first couple of pages so not sure if anyone has mentioned this further on but it’s a scheme called Magic Breakfast that schools have to apply for and get funding for. To meet the criteria there needs to be a certain % of children entitled to Free School Meals. I teach in a deprived area and have many on my Year 2 class coming in having had no breakfast, or if they’ve had something it’ll be crisps, a biscuit etc. The Magic Breakfast scheme is a half bagel each not full bagel, as I think some other posters have pointed out. School have also had to invest in freezers to store the frozen bagels for the week, trolleys for the bagels for each classroom, toasters for each classroom. They wouldn’t just be doing this on a whim or because it’s a nice treat- there must be a significant number of children entitled to Free School Meals coming to school hungry and therefore not able to focus on their learning. We have the bagels for breakfast and then fruit (in Key Stage 1) at break time but I do have children who don’t make it in in time for breakfast club (8.20am) so a half bagel at break time would be welcome for them. While jam might not be the ideal spread due to sugar content, it can be stored out of the fridge unlike butter/marg, doesn’t have allergy issues like peanut butter etc. As others have said, tell your DD she can choose to have bagel EITHER at breakfast or break and not both. Or don’t give her breakfast at home if she’s having it at school?

www.magicbreakfast.com/apply-for-magic-breakfast-provision

I don’t think anyone on this thread has suggested that schools shouldn’t help to support those children who haven’t had any breakfast just that it should be more nutritious than bagel with jam, healthier alternatives could be sourced for the same cost to schools.

I appreciate it would identify those children who aren’t as fortunate as others, financially but it does seem a waste of what is obviously extremely tight funding to provide a breakfast and snack to children whose parents can easily afford it themselves. This funding could surely be used more effectively to further support those children who really do need it.

@MrsWhites There’s no cost to schools with the above scheme- it’s a charity that schools apply to.

No I can't either, but there's no need to give it to the whole class. Overfeeding children is just as bad as underfeeding them. There should be an opt out option.

There is, the child says 'no thank you' which is a whole lot easier than no scheme like this and a child feeling shame in saying 'I'm hungry, we have no food at home'.

It’s half a bagel, they do this at dd school with butter and jam (minuscule amount of both) and just in the mornings give her a piece of fruit for break if your that concerned or as pp have said adjust her lunch

@LittleRa It’s great that charities like this exist but surely even their resources could be spread further if schools only claimed for the children that actually need the support? I do appreciate that this comes with its own issues though.

Good snacking habits is, just because it's available doesn't mean you need to eat it. Teach your daughter about eating when she's hungry, not just when food is offered. And to choose healthier foods.
Some kids have a bagel with jam for breakfast, a bagel with jam for lunch, and a school lunch for dinner, that's it. It's more important to provide food to those kids cheaply than to stop your daughter overeating.
Yes it would be better for it to be something g healthier, wholewheat bread and peanut butter, but they cant serve peanuts in school, or meat or eggs or cheese as an only option as then someone with allergies cant have it. And all kids eat jam sandwiches, it's easy, cheap, unlikely to be wasted, and calorific for those that dont get many calories.

Here’s a contact email address for nutrition related queries @MrsWhites if you wanted to get in touch with ideas about how they could improve the service and what’s provided. There’s also a section on the website where you can make a donation to the charity, should you wish.

Oh that’s difficult. I imagine the white bagel plus jam is something that can be given to most kids - veggie, kosher, many allergies - easily and quickly. If they’ve introduced it it’s because kids are coming in hungry with little lunch, and they’re not marking them out as different which is great. But it’s not nutritionally so great. I can’t imagine fruit will go far in kids with no breakfast.

even their resources could be spread further if schools only claimed for the children that actually need the support?

Yes because singling out the poor children for their free breakfast is really going to help.

"Snack time children! Timmy, Johnny, Sarah,come here for your free food. No, you cant have one Matthew, your parents earn enough money to send you with your own snack"