Kids snacks at school - white carbs twice before lunch

[prettyflowersinthesky]

DD is in y4.

I seriously don't want to be "that" parent so am wondering on the consensus on this.

DD's school has started giving the whole school's kids stodgy white carbs with jam twice before lunchtime (bagels).

Once when they arrive in the morning, and then again at break time.

DD is coming home with most of her lunch uneaten.

I fully appreciate about food poverty and that giving the kids food in this blanket way is a way of addressing that without singling out or embarrassing hungry children or families.

But I question

1. Whether or not the white carbs plus jam is appropriate nutrition
2. Whether or not most kids really need this
3. Whether or not two snacks between breakfast and lunch is excessive

There is no requirement for the kids to take and eat the snacks but to say to my child not to take them when the other kids are seems unfair.

I'm a bit torn, and certainly don't want to deny hungry kids access to food. But also wonder if the school needs to give this twice and also maybe the nutritional content of the snacks could be improved (e.g. fruit, whole grain snacks or something instead). I do appreciate that kids need more carbs than adults.

What does everyone think? Is this appropriate? I feel for the vast majority of kids without food poverty issues this is not necessary, so by serving all the kids a snack it is enforcing bad snacking habits, poor food choices as well as encouraging childhood obesity.

In many very healthy countries no snacking is allowed although I appreciate for very young children it may be necessary.

I am wondering whether or not to speak to the school about my concerns about them finding a better way to address the issues for the hungry kids.

But I do not want to speak up if I am seriously misinformed about all of this, hence interested in your responses. Thanks.

Yanbu = this is not appropriate / YABU - give the kids the snacks

@prettyflowersinthesky I was one of the kids that didn’t really get fed. This wasn’t really a thing when I was at school, but my teachers would do what they could. We didn’t get breakfast, were entitled to lunch but my parents often didn’t claim it, and often went without tea. I can honestly say that I wouldn’t have eaten fruit if it was offered to me. I don’t think I really ate fruit before I was 16... it wasn’t available to me or my sisters. None of us would have tried it. We also didn’t have bagels, but bread products were generally good because they give a lot of energy, and they’ll appeal to most tastes.

I appreciate there are then issues around obesity, and that it isn’t as easy as it sounds to change what your daughter eats at home because she’s fussy... but I think overall the school are doing the right thing here, and if it means your daughter is eating too much, perhaps skip something she eats at home until she’s old enough to decide if she wants the bagel or not?

I’m a little surprised that it’s two pieces of bagel rather than two different snacks, but schools are struggling with money and so are parents. I wouldn’t complain about it.

@LittleRa I'd be interested in seeing their food labels. It's a lot of sugar for very little else to give 8 year olds, some of whom will have already had a carby breakfast, and are leading up to a carby lunch.

And every day? The same thing? When we know that a variety of fresh unprocessed food is what is needed for good gut bacteria (linked with obesity)?

I'm not doubting anyone's intentions, just the execution.

@RhymesWithOrange

Email them here with nutrition queries.

As for carbs being more filling, they are quick release energy foods, leading to spikes and slumps. The difference between burning paper and logs. They give a quick, satisfying hit but they're not great in the long run for developing good eating habits.

£70 per week for a family of 4. Still can’t provide a child with cornflakes and UHT milk or bread and jam?

Probably not on a week where they also run out of laundry detergent, sanpro, deodorant and toilet rolls. And probably not if they have a baby that can't/won't breast feed and requires formula (this was a crippling expense for a young couple with a very young baby, until their child benefit and tax credits were in place, which took weeks), one of the children has to have new shoes or a new coat, or they've had to pay fares to a medical or other appointment.

The bus fare to the job centre and back was £6.50 for some of my clients. That's 10% of a family's disposable income (actually, probably more, as they lived in an area where there was no mains gas so had punitively expensive heating and less to spend on other stuff).

We spend more than £70 a week in supermarkets and there's only 2 of us. Although that does include wine!

If this is the Magic Breakfast Club (charity run scheme mentioned by PP above) and it sounds very like it, it will because 35% or more of the children in your DD's school are from a disadvantaged background. So on FSM.

35% or more.

Children from disadvantaged background are more likely to be hungry as school. (Hence they get free school meals offered to them). They are also more likely to come from a slightly chaotic home life (whatever good intentions are there, there is often not enough organisation at home to get the children dressed and fed and out the door for school. Google for research into this if you want to. But this is why Magic Breakfast is there. Funded by the government.

Bagels are provided as an option by the charity as they are easy to store and distribute to children with very little extra cost/maintenance costs by the school. They can be provided fresh or frozen and come from a central warehouse. They do not rot/increase food waste like fruit etc would. More likely to be eaten by a wider range of children. The charity also provides a start up grant to help set the scheme up (buying a freezer, plates etc) as school's budgets are utterly fucked. They can also provide cereals (but these can me more problematic to distribute/requires bowls/milk washing up required etc.

It is offered to all children within the school (rather than just the FSM) to avoid any risk of stigmatisation.

The charity accepts it is not nutritionally brilliant. But it is way better (x 1000) than hungry children.

Gently coach your child.

Leave the school to do what they can for disadvantaged children and quit complaining.

@OnDisplay

If this is the Magic Breakfast Club (charity run scheme mentioned by PP above) and it sounds very like it, it will because 35% or more of the children in your DD's school are from a disadvantaged background. So on FSM.

35% or more.

Children from disadvantaged background are more likely to be hungry as school. (Hence they get free school meals offered to them). They are also more likely to come from a slightly chaotic home life (whatever good intentions are there, there is often not enough organisation at home to get the children dressed and fed and out the door for school. Google for research into this if you want to. But this is why Magic Breakfast is there. Funded by the government.

Bagels are provided as an option by the charity as they are easy to store and distribute to children with very little extra cost/maintenance costs by the school. They can be provided fresh or frozen and come from a central warehouse. They do not rot/increase food waste like fruit etc would. More likely to be eaten by a wider range of children. The charity also provides a start up grant to help set the scheme up (buying a freezer, plates etc) as school's budgets are utterly fucked. They can also provide cereals (but these can me more problematic to distribute/requires bowls/milk washing up required etc.

It is offered to all children within the school (rather than just the FSM) to avoid any risk of stigmatisation.

The charity accepts it is not nutritionally brilliant. But it is way better (x 1000) than hungry children.

Gently coach your child.

Leave the school to do what they can for disadvantaged children and quit complaining.

👏👏👏👏👏👏

don't give her breakfast and provide a smaller lunch without carbs if you want.

@Sirzy

I think it’s quite naïve to think that most children will have had breakfast before school. That’s often not the case for a whole host of reasons.

If your daughter wants to have the bagel at school then can you not give her a piece of fruit at home instead?

This.

Check your privilege and stop being so selfish.

Mmmm love a bagel.

So @RhymesWithOrange what do you suggest schools do to help these children? Schools have no scope in their budgets to provide children with extra food, there are many teachers who dip into their own pockets to help feed hungry children. They should not have to do that.

Therefore they have to rely on charities who can help. They need food that can be easily prepared (no money to pay extra staff to prepare food), easy to store and attractive for children to eat. Hopefully the school dinners will help with some of their nutritional needs, bearing in mind they might not get any food in the evening.

@prettyflowersinthesky

Just be thankful that your DD has a choice

I am really surprised by this (teacher). I also would not be happy with my child having 2 jam bagels before lunch! Blood sugar nightmare.
I don't know of any school that gives away free snacks - how do they afford it?! We sometimes do toast at break but kids have to pay so parents can just not send the money (those known to have not had breakfast get it for free - discreetly). The same for breakfast club - there are schemes in place to allow certain chn to eat for free. Giving all chn food every day without question can also sometimes hide a problem and make it harder to indetify and therefore help those with problems at home which isn't good.
Schools should be encouraging healthy eating and are under pressure from the government to do so. Most around me only allow fruit at break.

The magic breakfast ration is half a bagel for a KS2 child and quarter for KS1. They’re a mix of white and wholemeal flour.

We cut ours into quarters, toast and add a scraping of butter spread (bought by staff) or jam on Friday (again bought by staff). Some children have both quarters when they arrive, others choose to save some till playtime, others know their parents prefer them only to have one piece and act accordingly.

It has made a massive difference to the ability of certain children to concentrate. Doesn’t matter how loudly you shout about what parents should be doing - some of these kids desperately need it.

@LittleRa

I think some people genuinely don’t realise what the food poverty situation is like for some families. We also have 15 families across the school who qualify for a food parcel for over the weekend (through a different charity), these are delivered to the school from Asda on a Friday and given to the eldest child in the family in a carrier bag to take home. Includes things like a bag of pasta, jar of pasta sauce, packet of biscuits etc. One week there was a delay with the delivery and it hadn’t arrived by hometime on Friday. We had one mum beside herself crying in the main reception as she physically didn’t know how she was going to feed her children that weekend.

This has made me cry. Poor woman :(

@ineedaholidaynow I can't solve child / food poverty in a mumsnet post! But (a) I think it's shocking that schools are put in this position and central government is passing the buck to charities when they are responsible and (b) we should expect the best for all our children, including enough food and a varied, nutritious diet, and including those from disadvantaged families.

Cheap, processed food is a stop gap an an emergency measure at best. We should expect more. But schools should not be put in the position of having to lead on it.

Just seen above that it may be a charity initiative which is a really good thing. My school is majority fsm so we do have systems in place to identify chn at risk of this and get them fed discreetly, engagjng with families is a major park of the process. I guess there's always a risk there's children you don't know about though. Very tricky.

@Ellovera2 At dd's primary HT and teaching staff bought food to feed children and parents gave cereal and cash to supplement what the teachers gave. It was no secret that there were children who needed feeding and so the school, supported by parents who were able to give, gave to ensure that it happened. Likewise when the weather was awful the HT would stand on the front observing children who didn't have suitable clothing. Coats and wellies and hats and gloves were donated and the parents of the children identified were invited to take what they needed.

But there are families who even if they have money don't feed their children properly, it is not always a case of throwing money at families.

I am now wanting a bagel with jam

[quote RhymesWithOrange]@ineedaholidaynow I can't solve child / food poverty in a mumsnet post! But (a) I think it's shocking that schools are put in this position and central government is passing the buck to charities when they are responsible and (b) we should expect the best for all our children, including enough food and a varied, nutritious diet, and including those from disadvantaged families.

Cheap, processed food is a stop gap an an emergency measure at best. We should expect more. But schools should not be put in the position of having to lead on it.[/quote]
^^ 100%

Direct your concerns further up the "food chain" OP or come up with more workable solutions (although you haven't really suggested anything useful anyway).

Direct your concerns further up the "food chain" OP or come up with more workable solutions (although you haven't really suggested anything useful anyway).

I actually do just that IRL you'll be pleased to know. Does that mean I have your permission to keep posting on MN?

I work in a primary school. Children only have fruit at morning break time. If they go to breakfast club they’ll be offered cereals and/or toast.

Random lol. My kids get an apple or nothing. Never heard of schools doing that.

@hiredandsqueak we do this at my school but it's not reimbursed. We have whip-rounds to buy all sorts from food to bags to coats to birthday cakes and we're happy to. There is no budget for it. But a whole school, 2 x a day must be quite expensive (unless it's a charity of course).