Kids snacks at school - white carbs twice before lunch

[prettyflowersinthesky]

DD is in y4.

I seriously don't want to be "that" parent so am wondering on the consensus on this.

DD's school has started giving the whole school's kids stodgy white carbs with jam twice before lunchtime (bagels).

Once when they arrive in the morning, and then again at break time.

DD is coming home with most of her lunch uneaten.

I fully appreciate about food poverty and that giving the kids food in this blanket way is a way of addressing that without singling out or embarrassing hungry children or families.

But I question

1. Whether or not the white carbs plus jam is appropriate nutrition
2. Whether or not most kids really need this
3. Whether or not two snacks between breakfast and lunch is excessive

There is no requirement for the kids to take and eat the snacks but to say to my child not to take them when the other kids are seems unfair.

I'm a bit torn, and certainly don't want to deny hungry kids access to food. But also wonder if the school needs to give this twice and also maybe the nutritional content of the snacks could be improved (e.g. fruit, whole grain snacks or something instead). I do appreciate that kids need more carbs than adults.

What does everyone think? Is this appropriate? I feel for the vast majority of kids without food poverty issues this is not necessary, so by serving all the kids a snack it is enforcing bad snacking habits, poor food choices as well as encouraging childhood obesity.

In many very healthy countries no snacking is allowed although I appreciate for very young children it may be necessary.

I am wondering whether or not to speak to the school about my concerns about them finding a better way to address the issues for the hungry kids.

But I do not want to speak up if I am seriously misinformed about all of this, hence interested in your responses. Thanks.

Yanbu = this is not appropriate / YABU - give the kids the snacks

@devlesko I hope your comment wasn't directed at me, if you read through all my earlier posts I said we encourage healthy eating and nutrition in my household . Strange comment?! I do however believe schools also have a social responsibility to teach this as well. Particularly as it is part of the national curriculum.

Surely they can think of a healthier option for the mid-morning snack!

Such as? Everyone suggests that schools should provide alternatives but never suggest what those alternatives should actually be bearing in mind the schools limitations on options.

Remembering that it must be cheap, filling, nutritious, something that requires minimal time/resources to prepare, requires minimal cutlery/crockery to serve and distribute (esp with covid restrictions and resources needed to wash/store/prepare things like bowls/cups etc) is something that can be bought in bulk and stored for a few days at least (most schools can't do a daily shop for snacks) so doesnt go off too quickly, has minimal waste, is something that will appeal to most children and follows school allergy rules (eg no nuts)

even if it was a packet of biscuits) an they would feed that child something, anything as the alternative is letting your child go hungry.
How would that be better than a jammy bagel?
This appears to be an extra the school is offering, presumably because they have identified a need.
If they offer FSM as well, surely they are fulfilling their part of the 'in loco parentis' contract.
Seriously, what do you want them to do? As PPs have said, fruit is not as filling, the jam is probably a scrape and the bagel probably a 1/4. Maybe these are the details you could confirm before complaining ( and presumably offering to help fund the difference between this and fruit of choice for all) instead of complaining about a school which is going above and beyond in its care for children who might need some carbs in their tummies.
Tummies which have been asked if they were hungry...

It's really sad, Scaraffito but it's not an easy fix, I know everybody realises that. Still there are posters on the thread talking of peanut butter. Lovely though that is, it's not cheap en masse and it's life-threatening for some. I wouldn't ever risk it.

Bad teeth? Understood. Perhaps, if our Covid rules ever relax, there could be visiting dentists to schools as there used to be in the 70s... free toothpaste/toothbrushes and good education as to clean teeth after each meal. That would negate some of the jam.

The more I read these threads, the more I feel as if we've (as a society - and definitely Government) dropped the ball with no intention of picking it up again. :(

@C8H10N4O2

I'd love to know who are all these 8 yr olds that obediently turn down the offer of a jam bagel and say "on no, I must wait for my nutritionally balanced savoury protein lunch" when most of their friends are eating jam.

Mine certainly wouldn't have done.

Kids who are well fed don't need it, kids who do need it deserve better than cheap jam sandwiches twice a day

I agree with you. I'm sure if I had told mine they weren't allowed to eat something they would have obeyed me - yeah right! If I'd said, "Ask your tummy if it is hungry", I can't begin to imagine the response.

As it happened there were no breakfasts and snacks provided at school then, only school 'dinners'. Parents would often send their child in with a snack for break time and it was often something like Kit Kat! Nobody thought anything of it and if they took a packed lunch it was a couple of sandwiches, an apple (or some other fruit), crisps or chocolate biscuit. Hardly any were overweight let alone obese, they were so active a lot of the time, even the non sporty ones rode bikes and walked a fair bit.

The important thing is for them to have a decent meal with the family at home early in the evening.

I completely agree. My DS would eat nothing but white bread if he was allowed. The amount of sugar is really bad. I portion of Jam is 10 grams of sugar And a bagel is 6g times that by two and that’s 32grams of sugar. A child aged 7-10 should only have 27grams a day. I doubt you’ll get the school to change though so if I was you I’d give fruit and yogurt/milk or home made smoothie for breakfast and veggies with hummus/dips and some ham/chicken/tuna on whole grain thin bread.

You are being very naive and if I'm honest, quite selfish!

It's easy to solve, don't give your daughter carbs for breakfast and send her a healthier/less lunch if you know she's not ready for it.

That way your daughters eats healthy and other kids who aren't quite as lucky as your daughter still get fed.

Simples.

"So you want the school to change what they are doing because you can't think of a way to change something yourself."

Nope. This is a brand new policy. I am finding my feet with it and attempting to find solutions. So parents are having to make changes their end to accommodate, such as changes to lunchboxes. I am doing this and adapting.

But I do believe having a blanket policy that affects the health of all kids rather than only those who need it is detrimental to a majority of kids who don't need it should be better administrated and raised with the school. Particularly in a school of many obese children.

OP says that this has started recently so it's likely that the novelty of this will wear off for her child. Sadly tho there will be children arriving at school who have had little or nothing to eat and who may experience the same when they get home (sometimes despite the best efforts of their parents) for these children a bagel or even 2 will make a big difference in a good way - its not ideal in nutrition terms but it's a start towards tackling what is likely to become a bigger problem in months to come as redundancies etc increase...

I looked up the nutritional value of peanut butter:

"A 100g portion of peanut butter contains (4): Carbohydrate: 20 grams of carbs (13% of calories), 6 of which are fibre. Protein: 25 grams of protein (15% of calories), which is quite a lot compared to most other plant foods. Fat: 50 grams of fat, totalling about 72% of calories."

Can't imagine having peanut butter on porridge but I don't like it anyway ( love porridge); chopped up banana would be nice and a little honey. That's how I have my porridge, sometimes with blueberries.

@FrangipaniBlue "You are being very naive and if I'm honest, quite selfish!"

I get that it looks selfish on one part, but never have I said children that need it should be denied food.

But it is also somewhat selfish not to consider the impact of the extra sugars and calories present in two extra snacks a day all the already obese children, and the children who have already had a filling breakfast. The bad habits it engenders? The poor food choices?

Parents on low income would qualify for child benefit for the child

The maximum most families* can get in benefits is £384.62 pw. The "affordable" rent for a 3-bed HA house in this area is over £270pw. Out of the remaining £110pw, a family will have to pay for gas, electricity, water, tv licence, internet, a mobile phone or two, and 20% of their council tax. That can easily come to £50pw.

Food, toiletries, cleaning/laundry materials and replacing essential items, including clothing, for a family of 4 on £60 is really tough.

People in private sector rentals are usually significantly worse off, as rents are mostly higher, leaving them with less disposable income.

Some people would really benefit from volunteering in a food bank and hearing how dreadfully poor some people are in this country. Maybe if everyone did this, they'd stop voting for governments that perpetuate this level of poverty.

*Only families where a family member has a disability, or where a parent has been in work in the last 9 months are exempt from the cap.

The problem is how do you differentiate who needs it? Do you say no to the child who says they haven’t eaten but who comes from a home that doesn’t qualify for free school meals?

Having something like this open to all means that those who need it are able to access it rather than some children missing out because they don’t quite meet the criteria.

@DressesWithPocketsRockMyWorld

Good for your daughters school. Food insecurity has quadrupled since COVID started and many families are struggling.

Also what about the kids who are not getting breakfast due to parents having substance misuse problems, domestic violence, mental health difficulties, all the kids out there who are young carers and don't have time for breakfast? I can't get worked up about those kids having a bagel and jam.

No I can't either, but there's no need to give it to the whole class. Overfeeding children is just as bad as underfeeding them. There should be an opt out option.

[quote prettyflowersinthesky]@FrangipaniBlue "You are being very naive and if I'm honest, quite selfish!"

I get that it looks selfish on one part, but never have I said children that need it should be denied food.

But it is also somewhat selfish not to consider the impact of the extra sugars and calories present in two extra snacks a day all the already obese children, and the children who have already had a filling breakfast. The bad habits it engenders? The poor food choices?[/quote]
Suggest a good affordable alternative.

You keep saying it’s not nutritious enough. But for £2 a day what can you feed 30 kids on?

It needs to be nut free and something that’s easily eatable.

My DD's schools has signed up to receive free healthy breakfast food under the National School Breakfast Programme (NSBP), which is a government scheme being delivered by the charities Family Action and Magic Breakfast. They offer bags of cereal and toasted bagels for breakfast and the kids can help themselves if they haven't had anything to eat. I can't believe you are upset about this. Have you had your head in the sand recently? Do you know how many kids have free school meals in your school? Do you know how many suffer from food poverty? Let those kids have the chance of something to eat and tell your child to say no thank you. She's eight and perfectly old enough to do this without depriving kids whose parents struggle to put food on their tables.

Bagels with jam is a cheap option and easy to dole out. Schools can't afford anything else because of relentless cutbacks. If you want schools to be in a position to provide better snack/breakfast/lunch options then you need to be prepared to do two things...pay more tax to fund it and stop voting in Conservative governments who don't give a flying fuck about ANY of your children, even the middle class low carb ones.

@prettyflowersinthesky

"So you want the school to change what they are doing because you can't think of a way to change something yourself."

Nope. This is a brand new policy. I am finding my feet with it and attempting to find solutions. So parents are having to make changes their end to accommodate, such as changes to lunchboxes. I am doing this and adapting.

But I do believe having a blanket policy that affects the health of all kids rather than only those who need it is detrimental to a majority of kids who don't need it should be better administrated and raised with the school. Particularly in a school of many obese children.

I'd rather see fat kids than malnourished ones, any day. Or kids ending up homeless because the rent money went on healthy, nutritious food.

@TeamLannister:

Glad there are some people on here who get it!

Why not wholemeal toast and butter with fruit. That will cost the same as jam and bagels.

@WhoseThatGirl

Why not wholemeal toast and butter with fruit. That will cost the same as jam and bagels.

No it won’t. The toast will. But not the fruit.

I think YABU but I see your point. Our school also got the funding for the bagles last year. They just served them plain though which I think is better as it stops the kids just taking them for a sugar rush. You probably have a higher percentage of kids not being fed well at your school like ours. It reduced behaviour issues at our school which is quite sad as it just shows the kids were hungry. I don't know how school could get round it without making those kids stand out.

Yes, you would be that parent

I’d imagine they are providing something that takes very little effort and doesn’t make a mess, Having a toaster going all morning does not fulfill that brief.

I have to admit I struggle to afford fruit. other than child benefit we aren’t eligible for anything.
But fruit is expensive.
I buy frozen to chuck in stuff, but that’s not feasible for the school. It’s also really annoying when youve stretched yourself to buy some and you get mouldy or damaged stuff in a new box.