Kids snacks at school - white carbs twice before lunch

[prettyflowersinthesky]

DD is in y4.

I seriously don't want to be "that" parent so am wondering on the consensus on this.

DD's school has started giving the whole school's kids stodgy white carbs with jam twice before lunchtime (bagels).

Once when they arrive in the morning, and then again at break time.

DD is coming home with most of her lunch uneaten.

I fully appreciate about food poverty and that giving the kids food in this blanket way is a way of addressing that without singling out or embarrassing hungry children or families.

But I question

1. Whether or not the white carbs plus jam is appropriate nutrition
2. Whether or not most kids really need this
3. Whether or not two snacks between breakfast and lunch is excessive

There is no requirement for the kids to take and eat the snacks but to say to my child not to take them when the other kids are seems unfair.

I'm a bit torn, and certainly don't want to deny hungry kids access to food. But also wonder if the school needs to give this twice and also maybe the nutritional content of the snacks could be improved (e.g. fruit, whole grain snacks or something instead). I do appreciate that kids need more carbs than adults.

What does everyone think? Is this appropriate? I feel for the vast majority of kids without food poverty issues this is not necessary, so by serving all the kids a snack it is enforcing bad snacking habits, poor food choices as well as encouraging childhood obesity.

In many very healthy countries no snacking is allowed although I appreciate for very young children it may be necessary.

I am wondering whether or not to speak to the school about my concerns about them finding a better way to address the issues for the hungry kids.

But I do not want to speak up if I am seriously misinformed about all of this, hence interested in your responses. Thanks.

Yanbu = this is not appropriate / YABU - give the kids the snacks

There are and the charity who provides the foods works within the guidelines for what schools are allowed to provide.

But @Janevaljane it will be the second half of the bagel they had at breakfast, so one bagel a day

I see that PP were extolling the quality of Italian school meals - are they referring to the same Italy which has one of the highest child obesity rates in Europe?

I hate Magic Breakfast - it is a cynical marketing exercise dressed up in well intentioned rhetoric. It’s about establishing habits in kids of eating junk for breakfast, creating future consumers for the manufacturers of these kinds of foods.

It doesn't seem at all healthy or efficient to give all children this when it's actually a small minority of parents who are too chaotic to provide breakfast to their children (definitely not "most" parents as we are supposed to be 'naive' not to realise!). No answers from me but it's not a good system currently.

@user1467300911

I hate Magic Breakfast - it is a cynical marketing exercise dressed up in well intentioned rhetoric. It’s about establishing habits in kids of eating junk for breakfast, creating future consumers for the manufacturers of these kinds of foods.

Yes, I have to agree.

This is the kinds of ways in which health inequalities become embedded. Eating this kind of food for breakfast becomes normalized.

Definitely sounds like magic breakfast, they provide the bagels for the whole school. In the school I worked in around 20% of children would have had breakfast the rest wouldn't. They would be given 1/4 of a bagel (full round bagel cut in half and then the half cut again so effectively a 1/4) Magic breakfast did not provide us with Jam we would put a small amount of butter on. Children would be allowed a maximum of 2 1/4 so 1/2 a full bagel and then be directed towards eating a piece of fruit if still hungry! This was a highly deprived area and much needed for them to be able to settle down and learn and as the class teacher you know the children you need to make sure are allowed to get seconds if they want it.
Not sure I would be happy with twice before lunch (especially with the jam) but is she really having a full bagel or is the bagel cut in half! And I would definitely send a piece of fruit in for break time.

It’s probably quite hard for some parents to think that there are areas where the majority of children don’t have breakfast before they come to school, if you don’t live in that area.

In the school I worked in around 20% of children would have had breakfast the rest wouldn't

I suppose its self perpetuating - why spend money on breakfast if you know kids are going to get a free bagel at school.

It’s probably quite hard for some parents to think that there are areas where the majority of children don’t have breakfast before they come to school, if you don’t live in that area

No, it's not hard. It isn't the norm nationally though. And if the school provides free breakfast, of course many parents won't bother with breakfast at home.

But the free breakfast will most likely be provided in areas where there is a need already.

@Janevaljane

In the school I worked in around 20% of children would have had breakfast the rest wouldn't

I suppose its self perpetuating - why spend money on breakfast if you know kids are going to get a free bagel at school.

True but i worked in this school for 6 years and the breakfast only started in the last year it took that long to get support. For 1 year before that school was buying bread to provide 1/2 a piece of toast. We had a lot of parents using food banks and stamps so any little help that the school could give was needed. Behaviour issues also went down due to children being fed and so in the best state to start learning.

I’d love to know exactly how people know without a shadow of a doubt most kids won’t have had breakfast.

Even (shock) children who come from families who claim FSM do have for the most part at least one loving parent. It’s so patronising to assume because someone claims certain benefits they can’t or won’t give their children breakfast.

rainyoutside, this scheme is for everyone. That's why they are not only providing bagles to children with PP/FSM. There could be abused children, children from chaotic homes, neglected children, etc, etc. who needs them.

Yes I know that but OP is correct to say these children are in a minority.

Even in schools with a high percentage of FSM children will not have the majority in any one class being starved and abused. It is insulting to parents to claim they are.

It is NOT a good or workable system as it is. OP is correct to highlight this.

Only on MN is a bagel or breakfast cereal "junk food".

There have been no practical suggestions of alternatives for the families that need breakfast provided.
Free fruit is provided to KS1 and (after a more filling breakfast) could be a great snack but it would be too expensive for the whole of KS2.
Suggesting that it's "normalising" what would be most families' regular breakfast is ridiculous.

Most people don't have time to cook eggs/porridge in the morning and if your children aren't keen on them, you may as well throw the eggs or oats and milk straight in the bin. Plus the cost of electricity. Parents buy what their children will eat, and what will fill them up, and what's cheap. And no, they don't have a slow cooker or the pennies to run it either.

parents buy what their children will eat

Yes, overwhelmingly parents do. Even poor ones.

Yes I find it really patronising to assume that the majority of parents on FSM, or even from chaotic homes won't prioritise feeding their kids. Obviously if you are in poverty then a free breakfast is going to be helpful. I don't think it's "naive" to want that breakfast or snack to be as nutritious as possible.

So @rainyoutside what do you suggest for those children who don’t have breakfast? The measure of how many FSM there are in the school will be used to indicate how deprived an area it is, doesn’t mean those parents of FSM pupils are neglectful.

The sad thing is that in many affluent areas where these schemes won’t be running there will be children not getting breakfast/dinner for various reasons. Those children will be missing out, unless teachers/parents dip into their pockets for them. A couple of parents, including myself, would often help out with food for a couple of children in my son’s class who came from dysfunctional families. These families struggled to get their children to school never mind remembering that they needed breakfast, snacks etc

I think breakfast clubs should be provided, absolutely. But I also recognise it is possible to damage children through over feeding them as well as not giving them enough food.

A child who is given too much to eat will feel sluggish and lack motivation (think about how we feel after a huge roast dinner or takeaway.)

I would strongly suggest that breakfast clubs target children who are likely not to have breakfast before school. I would suggest free fruit is offered to all children at break time with parents asked for voluntary donations. I would certainly happily pay into such a scheme.

But nothing will persuade me that the correct course of action is to give all children junk because a tiny minority won’t have had breakfast at all.

Christ, the demonisation of the humble bagel is extraordinary.

It's something like 1 in 5 children don't get breakfast at home.

Not really. For me personally it’s just simply a matter of too much food. Fine when it’s fruit or veg (and I know you can even over indulge on those with catastrophic bathroom results ) but I do think people underestimate the impact obesity has, in the short term as well as the long term. I would have got very fat very quickly eating a bagel with butter and jam every day at that age.

How do you know that category?

I’m not being contentious here, but IME people get confused a lot between a child on FSM and a child from a chaotic background. They aren’t totally interchangeable. Many children will come from homes where for a variety of reasons their parents or parent are claiming benefits that make them eligible for FSM, but they will still eat.

It’s a dangerous assumption and it isn’t even true.