Kids snacks at school - white carbs twice before lunch

[prettyflowersinthesky]

DD is in y4.

I seriously don't want to be "that" parent so am wondering on the consensus on this.

DD's school has started giving the whole school's kids stodgy white carbs with jam twice before lunchtime (bagels).

Once when they arrive in the morning, and then again at break time.

DD is coming home with most of her lunch uneaten.

I fully appreciate about food poverty and that giving the kids food in this blanket way is a way of addressing that without singling out or embarrassing hungry children or families.

But I question

1. Whether or not the white carbs plus jam is appropriate nutrition
2. Whether or not most kids really need this
3. Whether or not two snacks between breakfast and lunch is excessive

There is no requirement for the kids to take and eat the snacks but to say to my child not to take them when the other kids are seems unfair.

I'm a bit torn, and certainly don't want to deny hungry kids access to food. But also wonder if the school needs to give this twice and also maybe the nutritional content of the snacks could be improved (e.g. fruit, whole grain snacks or something instead). I do appreciate that kids need more carbs than adults.

What does everyone think? Is this appropriate? I feel for the vast majority of kids without food poverty issues this is not necessary, so by serving all the kids a snack it is enforcing bad snacking habits, poor food choices as well as encouraging childhood obesity.

In many very healthy countries no snacking is allowed although I appreciate for very young children it may be necessary.

I am wondering whether or not to speak to the school about my concerns about them finding a better way to address the issues for the hungry kids.

But I do not want to speak up if I am seriously misinformed about all of this, hence interested in your responses. Thanks.

Yanbu = this is not appropriate / YABU - give the kids the snacks

[quote fluffums]@Storyoftonight "Agreed. I can't believe people would begrudge this."

FFS why can't people read the full thread. Nobody has said they want to deny hungry children food at any time. Merely wondered about the appropriateness of feeding the other kids that are not hungry (as this is a blanket approach) two sugary bready snacks between their breakfast and lunch.[/quote]
I can read a full thread. Thanks. Firstly, what does OP or PP actually want ?

But actually working in a school , I've seen the implications of complaints like.this and it can be that the whole thing gets pulled. People don't think of this.

@Storyoftonight the OPs original post is quite clear - asking for opinions on the situation before approaching the school. not going in all guns blazing, by the sound of things.

You can’t reasonably expect an 8 year old to turn down a bagel with jam when everyone in the class is eating that. All this stuff about teaching a kid to say “no thank you I’m full”. It’s ludicrous to expect this. I don’t even know adults who can do this, a big reason why there’s so much obesity. I don’t know any kids that could do this especially independently of their parents surrounded by mates

I’d like to hear how other countries deal with food poverty. I went on the wonder breakfast scheme website- it just looked like an advert for bagel Nash and nestle. Have they really got these kids interests at heart? I’m not sure. All kids should have decent food at school regarding of what’s happening at home

But someone has to pay for it @0gfhty, are you willing to do that?

For sure I am!

These kids get shitty processed carbs or low-quality manufactured goods when/if they get fed at home. It's unfair to them to feed them rubbish at school too.
The resolution is a free breakfast club where some children are strongly encouraged to attend (sunshine club) and a help-yourself-to-two-items snack trolley with proper food like boiled eggs, cheese squares, carrot batons, a box of milk or a packet of nuts. Kids with allergies or cultural preferences should know how to choose appropriately for their needs and should not dictate the food selection for others.

Other decent countries like Italy feed their children proper food at school. Everyone gets it. Everyone is expected to eat the green food and fussy children are expected to get over themselves.

@0gfhty New Zealand's free lunch scheme for disadvantaged schools here:
free lunch

That sounds Ideal. My family are Italians and I know they are so careful with what they eat so that doesn't surprise me. They have canteens with cooks who cook from scratch there even for smaller employers whereas the culture here in offices etc is to buy packet sandwiches. I suppose a lot of this is a cultural attitude to processed food which was ultimately driven by big profiteering corporations like nestle.

@Guineapigbridge

These kids get shitty processed carbs or low-quality manufactured goods when/if they get fed at home. It's unfair to them to feed them rubbish at school too. The resolution is a free breakfast club where some children are strongly encouraged to attend (sunshine club) and a help-yourself-to-two-items snack trolley with proper food like boiled eggs, cheese squares, carrot batons, a box of milk or a packet of nuts. Kids with allergies or cultural preferences should know how to choose appropriately for their needs and should not dictate the food selection for others.

Being near people eating nuts can lead to anaphylaxis for some children.

@Guineapigbridge

These kids get shitty processed carbs or low-quality manufactured goods when/if they get fed at home. It's unfair to them to feed them rubbish at school too. The resolution is a free breakfast club where some children are strongly encouraged to attend (sunshine club) and a help-yourself-to-two-items snack trolley with proper food like boiled eggs, cheese squares, carrot batons, a box of milk or a packet of nuts. Kids with allergies or cultural preferences should know how to choose appropriately for their needs and should not dictate the food selection for others.

Well, the nuts are a no-no as the mere presence of nuts ( not just eating them) can trigger an allergic reaction.

Otherwise, lovely, but who is paying for it? Schools don’t have the budget.

Who’s preparing it? Schools can’t afford to pay kitchen staff, TAs are being made redundant unless totally indispensable for individual children.

How are you staffing a breakfast club for every class bubble, given that bubbles can’t mix in the pandemic and each class has only one adult?

Some people have really got their heads in the clouds about the reality of choices that schools have to make with the desperate state of school finances. Head teachers are not stupid, they know what the ideal is, but there is no way they can fund it. And they can’t just ignore government rules about children mixing - the Covid related logistics are already barely possible to manage.

[quote Guineapigbridge]@0gfhty New Zealand's free lunch scheme for disadvantaged schools here:
free lunch[/quote]
And the UK free lunch scheme is also balanced.

I suppose the supermarkets get more profit from selling processed stuff than selling healthy food. It's easier to stock and less waste. And the gov gets lots of tax from the supermarkets (or at least are in their pockets for some reason). So we buy and eat processed food.

Some people have really got their heads in the clouds about the reality of choices that schools have to make with the desperate state of school finances

I'm not sure that's true. I have volunteered in 5 separate primary schools over the last 3 years, 3 'leafy', 2 very much not. None of them fed their kids a quarter of a jam bagel for breakfast and snack. Snack in all 5 schools was fruit.

But volunteering at a school doesn’t mean you are privy to the worry going on amongst staff in the background that yet again too many children are coming to school hungry.

It doesn’t make you privvy to the parent in tears at the office because their universal credits has messed up so they are struggling to feed the children.

It doesn’t make you privy to the heartbreaking decisions head’s have to make about where to divert funds.

If a charity is in the position to be able to identify a school where there is a high proportion of children who are potentially at risk from food poverty and do something, even something little like half a bagel, to help just take the edge off that then fantastic

But volunteering at a school doesn’t mean you are privy to the worry going on amongst staff in the background that yet again too many children are coming to school hungry

Absolutely. Purely anecdotal. Just pointing out that a piece of a jam bagel twice a day isn't normal.

Either tell your DD not to have the bagel at breakfast or stop feeding her breakfast and let her have the bagel.

You are very naive if you think most kids have breakfast before school. There are loads of reasons for this, but supplying kids with a blanket breakfast is much more important than one singular child.

In this case its up to you to step up and address this directly with your child. They don't have to take both bagels of course, and I doubt any other kids would be mean to her for turning one of them down.

KS1 children get free fruit at school everyday

@Janevaljane

But volunteering at a school doesn’t mean you are privy to the worry going on amongst staff in the background that yet again too many children are coming to school hungry

Absolutely. Purely anecdotal. Just pointing out that a piece of a jam bagel twice a day isn't normal.

And neither is the level of food poverty we are seeing at the moment.

You are very naive if you think most kids have breakfast before school

I'd say the majority of kids have breakfast either before school or in breakfast clubs, yes.

I worked in a school where the kids were given 1/2 bagel in the morning as they came in. I think you would be surprised how many children turn up to school hungry. Some children get one hot meal day At lunchtime so something warm in their tummies makes a huge difference to them. Their learning is also improved as they can actually concentrate. Just cut down what you pack for lunch or tell her she can have the mid morning one or send in fruit for her to have instead.

@Janevaljane I work in a school and I’m sure of my facts about school budgets.

The fruit snack is for KS1 only in England, and I think the devolved governments have different systems.

"Encouragingly, breakfast appears to play a larger role in primary school children’s diets, with 92 percent of 5-11 year olds having breakfast every day (although a quarter said that they did not have a drink)"

School Nutrition Survey

And actually there are reams of government guidelines on what food should be served in schools, including information on the free fruit and veg scheme, which provides all young children 4-7 with a piece of fruit or veg.

And as I've repeatedly said, a jam bagel for breakfast is one thing. Having the same thing again for a snack is unhealthy and uneccessary