Kids snacks at school - white carbs twice before lunch

[prettyflowersinthesky]

DD is in y4.

I seriously don't want to be "that" parent so am wondering on the consensus on this.

DD's school has started giving the whole school's kids stodgy white carbs with jam twice before lunchtime (bagels).

Once when they arrive in the morning, and then again at break time.

DD is coming home with most of her lunch uneaten.

I fully appreciate about food poverty and that giving the kids food in this blanket way is a way of addressing that without singling out or embarrassing hungry children or families.

But I question

1. Whether or not the white carbs plus jam is appropriate nutrition
2. Whether or not most kids really need this
3. Whether or not two snacks between breakfast and lunch is excessive

There is no requirement for the kids to take and eat the snacks but to say to my child not to take them when the other kids are seems unfair.

I'm a bit torn, and certainly don't want to deny hungry kids access to food. But also wonder if the school needs to give this twice and also maybe the nutritional content of the snacks could be improved (e.g. fruit, whole grain snacks or something instead). I do appreciate that kids need more carbs than adults.

What does everyone think? Is this appropriate? I feel for the vast majority of kids without food poverty issues this is not necessary, so by serving all the kids a snack it is enforcing bad snacking habits, poor food choices as well as encouraging childhood obesity.

In many very healthy countries no snacking is allowed although I appreciate for very young children it may be necessary.

I am wondering whether or not to speak to the school about my concerns about them finding a better way to address the issues for the hungry kids.

But I do not want to speak up if I am seriously misinformed about all of this, hence interested in your responses. Thanks.

Yanbu = this is not appropriate / YABU - give the kids the snacks

@0gfhty would you like to be the child who is singled out in the class as the child whose parents can't afford or can't be bothered to give you breakfast?

Even if there was a subtle way of doing that, it would be very tricky at the moment as class bubbles need to eat together so it is not as if you can group all the poor children from all the classes together so they can have their free bagel

@TitianaTitsling it's hard for a lot of kids with poor impulse control to not take food on offer, especially if their peers are having it, and even more if it's sugary / refined carbs / jam etc. Yes, some may have better impulse control but I know my 8 year old and her relatives of a similar age will more often than not say yes in this kind of situation even if she's had something to eat not long ago. (She's not obese btw).

I'm really relaxed about food these days (after my third fussy child wore me down) but I'd be really unhappy with this. I have little issue with white carbs for kids tbh, but the jam I have more of an issue with, and the fact it's twice. Surely this affects the deprived kids too, they won't eat as much of their healthy school lunch? I would ask your DD to choose one bagel, not both, because she is not eating enough of her lunch. That isn't as harsh as saying don't eat any. I would speak to the school about it. It should be bagels at breakfast and then fruit at break. As I said, I think I'm relaxed about things like carbs but I don't see the point in snacks, identical substandard ones at that. I only allow mine to take fruit or veg for morning snack, and thankfully that is the rule at my kids school. I don't think I've ever complained to my kids school for fear of being 'that parent' but I absolutely would ask about this.

Well @0gfhty why not separate them again, all children who don't need the food but can't turn it down, you sit here?
Of course that would be absolutely ridiculous, but why are you so willing to have one group of children singled out?

There are strict rules about what can and can not be provided to children within the school day. Only nuts, seeds, fruit and veg are allowed with no added salt,sugar or fat. Nothing else. I would have a word about school providing a healthy option or no option.

I think there is only one bagel each (if this is Magic Breakfast) and the school are giving half at breakfast and half at break time. I would say that if the point of the Magic Breakfasts is to give hungry children a better start to the day then the whole bagel should be given first thing. Also this would be better for children like op's dd who might refuse the bagel as she's only just had breakfast at home or eat it if she wants to be like her friends. No matter because without the break time bagel she will be hungry for lunch.

Because the kids have different needs and some kids come to school needing breakfast. and the teacher probably doesn’t have time to police the jam bagels. Alternatively just offer a healthy option to all

@user27378 they are probably being offered twice as they are free and being offered by a charity. The school does not have money to fund any more food. As some PP have said it is in fact 1 or indeed half a bagel per child, split in half, so not 2 whole bagels per day. The jam won't be dolloped on but a small amount spread on there.

The OP's DD has breakfast before she gets to school and then has this bagel, she will also have tea/dinner when she gets home. For too many children this bagel will represent breakfast and dinner, the only other meal will be the school lunch. An apple may be better for them, but probably won't be as satisfying or appetising to a child who otherwise may only have one meal a day.

There’s a lot of reasons why kids can’t be homogenised into one group and sadly this is one

[quote RhymesWithOrange]Here’s one place that’s had results. But as I said upthread, this is not a problem for schools alone to solve.

www.theguardian.com/society/2017/apr/14/amsterdam-solution-obesity-crisis-no-fruit-juice-enough-sleep[/quote]
Lots of good ideas, but doesn’t address the specific question I raised about exactly how schools should organise a better breakfast/ snack within the current constraints.

But even that relies on the school knowing, and if limited to numbers being able to prioritise, who needs help and with the best will in the world it’s not always obvious

Schools know. Their PEF funding depends on them knowing which kids need help and which don’t. Or are you going to go down the “a teacher can’t know every child” nonsensical route?

I never suggested this solution would suit every situation, but I’m sick of the suggestion that school management are so stupid, they can’t work out how to support the kids who need it, without giving every child the same thing in order to avoid singling out kids in crisis.

Feeding children who don’t need to be fed in order to serve some kind of greater good is a hugely wasteful way to use scarce resources. It was ridiculous that they gave my child free school meals but couldn’t afford to give her appropriate additional support.

There is a perfectly simple way to give kids breakfast, and that’s by providing a free breakfast club. Our school has a break time snack trolley, anyone without a play snack can help themselves.

[quote prettyflowersinthesky]@MJMG2015 I said fruit "for example". How can you expect "the best" substitute to be substituted on a low budget? Anything even a little better, is better.[/quote]
Hungry kids are better off with half a bagel than an apple. You don't have all the facts surrounding their decision.

It's not your circus, leave them to feed the monkies and adjust your daughters breakfast/lunch around that.

Options

Dont give her a carb breakfast

Tell her to only have 1 bagel or none

Give her a non carb, healthier packed lunch

@Sirzy

I think it’s quite naïve to think that most children will have had breakfast before school. That’s often not the case for a whole host of reasons.

If your daughter wants to have the bagel at school then can you not give her a piece of fruit at home instead?

This

Ok but one thing you don't say is it a quarter bagel half or full most cut them into 1/4 its most likely a 1/4 so not anything to complain about

Mine used to get fruit as a snack at breaktime

And yes you have totally avoided those asking iv whole bagel /1/2 or 1/4 etc
Be very surprised if a whole one each as would be pricey and have you seen snacks or asked the teacher to confirm

@Inertia as I have said (repeatedly) schools cannot, nor should they be expected to, solve the problem alone.

All this drama.

Just ask your child’s teacher not to give her a bit of bagel. Explain to your child that the bagel is for children who don’t get breakfast at home and she had breakfast so doesn’t need it. Surely she can cope with that?

All those suggesting kids just go to breakfast club, great in theory, but from experience, many parents who find it difficult to feed their children also find it difficult to get them to school on time. Often we just need to feed the kids whenever they turn up. Another reason why something less perishable and portable like a bagel is easier. They can be handed something to eat whilst they just join in with the lesson.

I get where you're coming from OP. I'm aware that my weight issues really are due to carb obsession that started in childhood.

So I'm careful with my DC. And only do one meal a day that's bread. So no toast for breakfast if it's going to be sandwiches for lunch etc.

So how about swapping breakfast to something like Greek yogurt with fruit. Or porridge.

Then lunch of hummus and veg to dip. Pepperami. Or just a little buffet of bits. That works to complement the bagel.

That's what I'd do if I was concerned and knew that my DC we're getting a bagel daily. Although do check it's actually a real whole bagel. You might be surprised that it's not as much as you think.

If I weren't able to feed my DC I'd be over the moon at them getting a jam bagel. It's a fine breakfast when they'll also get a hot lunch. So I'd be changing my own habits in your shoes rather than being "that mum"

That's nutritionally shit, whatever their reasons. The snack should be fruit, or nothing. If they are having breakfast and lunch they don't need a stodgy snack.

Don't ask them to stop providing food, lots of kids rely on it. I've read some horrifying articles about children going without food apart from what schools provide :( don't know how it's possible in this day and age but it clearly is.

That being said, my DD started reception this year and while they have all the carbs at breakfast club (DD has breakfast at home with me) they only have fruit and milk available as snacks between meals.

@RhymesWithOrange you’re right, the problem of child poverty requires wider solutions. But until those are offered, schools with significant numbers of children turning up hungry need to address that now, despite having zero budget for it and being constrained by pandemic- related rules. Nobody has offered an alternative that a headteacher in a particular school can take up now.

@Goatinthegarden

All this drama.

Just ask your child’s teacher not to give her a bit of bagel. Explain to your child that the bagel is for children who don’t get breakfast at home and she had breakfast so doesn’t need it. Surely she can cope with that?

All those suggesting kids just go to breakfast club, great in theory, but from experience, many parents who find it difficult to feed their children also find it difficult to get them to school on time. Often we just need to feed the kids whenever they turn up. Another reason why something less perishable and portable like a bagel is easier. They can be handed something to eat whilst they just join in with the lesson.

This is an excellent point.

@CloudyVanilla

Don't ask them to stop providing food, lots of kids rely on it. I've read some horrifying articles about children going without food apart from what schools provide :( don't know how it's possible in this day and age but it clearly is.

That being said, my DD started reception this year and while they have all the carbs at breakfast club (DD has breakfast at home with me) they only have fruit and milk available as snacks between meals.

So your dd is having a healthy diet but its fine for other, poorer kids to eat shite? That article about Amsterdam is very interesting and positive.