Kids snacks at school - white carbs twice before lunch

[prettyflowersinthesky]

DD is in y4.

I seriously don't want to be "that" parent so am wondering on the consensus on this.

DD's school has started giving the whole school's kids stodgy white carbs with jam twice before lunchtime (bagels).

Once when they arrive in the morning, and then again at break time.

DD is coming home with most of her lunch uneaten.

I fully appreciate about food poverty and that giving the kids food in this blanket way is a way of addressing that without singling out or embarrassing hungry children or families.

But I question

1. Whether or not the white carbs plus jam is appropriate nutrition
2. Whether or not most kids really need this
3. Whether or not two snacks between breakfast and lunch is excessive

There is no requirement for the kids to take and eat the snacks but to say to my child not to take them when the other kids are seems unfair.

I'm a bit torn, and certainly don't want to deny hungry kids access to food. But also wonder if the school needs to give this twice and also maybe the nutritional content of the snacks could be improved (e.g. fruit, whole grain snacks or something instead). I do appreciate that kids need more carbs than adults.

What does everyone think? Is this appropriate? I feel for the vast majority of kids without food poverty issues this is not necessary, so by serving all the kids a snack it is enforcing bad snacking habits, poor food choices as well as encouraging childhood obesity.

In many very healthy countries no snacking is allowed although I appreciate for very young children it may be necessary.

I am wondering whether or not to speak to the school about my concerns about them finding a better way to address the issues for the hungry kids.

But I do not want to speak up if I am seriously misinformed about all of this, hence interested in your responses. Thanks.

Yanbu = this is not appropriate / YABU - give the kids the snacks

I did a bit of nutritional analysis

A bagel contains 2.3g fibre, an apple 2.4g

An apple contains 16g of sugar, a bagel contains 4g.

A bagel contains 8g of protein, an 8-9 yr old needs about 20g a day. Thats about 30-40%.

A bagel is fortified with niacin, thiamine, iron and magnesium There is small amounts of calcium

An apple contains mostly vitamin c and potassium, also about 1% RDA vit a and some smaller quantities of other vitamins. Both contain equal amounts of b6

Admittedly the jam is mostly sugar. There are some vitamins in jam in small quantities (approx 2% of rda vit c in a teaspoon)

If your concerned about fibre a bagel and an apple are the same. A bagel has many more carbs but less sugar. It also contains protein not available in an apple. Vitamins and minerals wise both have benefits but a bagel with Jam contains a wider selection. If I were to chose only one food the bagel is better.

Basically the advantage to the apple is it is lower calories.

Tbh id just adjust your childs breakfast lunch to accomodate the extra food. What about giving your child some apple and peanut butter for breakfast? You get the fruit you want and your child then gets carbs from the bagel. Win win.

Reduce the amount of carbs in their lunch

You've had plenty of advice on here about how to balance your own child's nutrition if she really cannot say 'no' despite you telling her to do so.

To be quite honest, you're coming across as a bit of a bargain basement Joan of Arc, wanting to ride into the school to tell them how badly they're doing and all these 'studies' that you keep telling us you read makes you superior.

They don't. You sound uptight and with no idea of child food poverty.

Who are you to tell the whole school about 'white carbs' aka, in this case as a bagel?

The bottom line is you want to massage your own ego, complaining about something that doesn't concern you and it doesn't, not in a time when teachers are trying to avoid hungry kids.

I hope they send you off with a flea in your ear. Just some random, not I note a nutritionist, who is so unable to deal with her own child's diet that she is happy to run the risk of having those bagels stopped.

Because there is a good chance that will happen...think about that and , if you must read a study, read one about children being hungry.

Egotistical and arrogant-hoping the school will see you as a parent that knows all about nutrition and who reads studies...do you think the teachers don't and that they need you to point out that the situation isn't ideal.

You called me judgemental before. Well I do judge you, find you wanting and so will the school who will see right through your motives.

I'm hiding this thread now because you wide eyed 'faux' concern for the nutrition of hungry children is getting my goat.

Calories from White Carbs are better than calories from thin air because it's not just your child who is fussy, poor ones can be too and might reject your apples and oranges.

@UncleFoster

Basically the advantage to the apple is it is lower calories.

Tbh id just adjust your childs breakfast lunch to accomodate the extra food. What about giving your child some apple and peanut butter for breakfast? You get the fruit you want and your child then gets carbs from the bagel. Win win.

Reduce the amount of carbs in their lunch

And for children who don’t know where the next meal is coming from then calories in matter.

10 jam bagels a week isn’t ideal.

My school provides breakfast for all and FSM for 85% of 1700 kids, and serves a cheesy bagel once a week as a break time snack.

So rather than telling her not to take them you want to raise it with the school in a negative way and potentially deprive other children? She's 8/9 I think she can understand that the more bagels she eats, the less lunch she eats. Just explain your preferences to her. Even cutting it down to the breakfast bagel would help.

This whole thread beautiful illustrates the attitude behind the obesity crisis.

(and the wilful lack of awareness of children who don’t have enough to eat)

So do you only offer it to those children in need?

Our school does a separate breakfast club, called the sunshine club. The kids most in need of breakfast, and some nurture time are invited to it. They do things like working out how much food they will need, work up shopping lists, they serve each other, sit together and chat. It happens away from the main breakfast club, and I guarantee the other kids have no idea what it is all about. I only knew it was happening because the kids wait in reception before it starts and I dropped our girl off in reception and saw them there. All the other kids are either in the dining hall for breakfast club, or meeting in the playground. Even with DD being in reception, she has no idea that’s what they are waiting for.

There is always a way to make sure those who need it are given help, without making it obvious.

[quote prettyflowersinthesky]@FrangipaniBlue "You are being very naive and if I'm honest, quite selfish!"

I get that it looks selfish on one part, but never have I said children that need it should be denied food.

But it is also somewhat selfish not to consider the impact of the extra sugars and calories present in two extra snacks a day all the already obese children, and the children who have already had a filling breakfast. The bad habits it engenders? The poor food choices?[/quote]
2 bagels are not "poor food choices" if part of an overall balanced day of food though.

If you know school are giving these 2 snacks to make sure that ALL children who may not have other choices are fed, then it's up to you as a parent in the privileged position of having a choice to make the ones that are best for your daughter.

My DS is as fussy as they come, I know that of the food served in his secondary school canteen the healthy ones are not to his liking and so he always chooses the unhealthy option. I as the adult, make sure the meals I have control over (ie his breakfast and tea) are healthy things he does like so that over the course of the day his diet is a balanced one.

@MintyMabel

So do you only offer it to those children in need?

Our school does a separate breakfast club, called the sunshine club. The kids most in need of breakfast, and some nurture time are invited to it. They do things like working out how much food they will need, work up shopping lists, they serve each other, sit together and chat. It happens away from the main breakfast club, and I guarantee the other kids have no idea what it is all about. I only knew it was happening because the kids wait in reception before it starts and I dropped our girl off in reception and saw them there. All the other kids are either in the dining hall for breakfast club, or meeting in the playground. Even with DD being in reception, she has no idea that’s what they are waiting for.

There is always a way to make sure those who need it are given help, without making it obvious.

But even that relies on the school knowing, and if limited to numbers being able to prioritise, who needs help and with the best will in the world it’s not always obvious

Surely they're not all getting a whole bagel each time anyway? I would guess more at a half of a half each, each time. Or a half perhaps.

@Aragog

parents who are unable to provide their children with breakfast can drop their children a little earlier (along with children attending breakfast club, so no stigma) and they can eat then.

We did this pre Covid for our vulnerable children. They were invited to breakfast club free of charge, some were persuaded strongly to come.

However, due to Covid restrictions in schools this isn't possible in all schools now. Due you know all the different bubble rules and more there are to work through?

My child’s school gave out bagels pre Covid too . ( my daughter took hers as well as breakfast for a short while before the novelty wore off ) . She says they no longer do it . I assume that now they go in all different entrances and at different times it’s unworkable .

I haven't read the whole thread

But if they are offering food then there must be some kids who need it.

Balance it lit by giving your dc a lighter breakfast surely.

Some of those kids in class,
It might be all they get or not much more.

If they are providing this then maybe ask why.

The privilege and naivety on this thread are pretty breathtaking tbh

@LovelyLovelyMe I totally disagree with most of your post although I do agree that it's very important food is provided for children in poverty

Why is OP massaging their ego and by being concerned about their child's diet at a really important time in their lives nutritionally? Yes she can try to balance it the rest of the time but as we all know it's not easy, and not helped by the child being offered an option children would prefer ten times a week

You say it doesn't concern OP but of course it does. We were told by our consultant for example with our young daughter to specifically avoid these sorts of foods, that they were ok from time to time but not ten times a week every week for a majority of the year. (She's not overweight at all though, if anything slightly light)

I don't know what having an 8 year old is like as she's younger but if they have the self will to say no most days of the week they are doing better than most adults I know. In this situation I'd have to try to balance even more the rest of her diet but that's not always easy as there's no option to mix a more nutritious alternative with a tempting part in the lunch to try to get the nutrients in

And again for previous posters fruit is completely different metabolically to a refined carbohydrate

But I do agree I don't have all the answers at all, just that I do understand OP's concern because she cares about her child

I would not be happy with this either. Some of the responses seem quite extreme and bizarre on here and it's 50/50 in the poll so You are not that parent. You don't need to be a nutritionist to understand that the amount of carbohydrates and refined sugar is too much in a bagel with jam. And I don't know many kids who would turn this down just because their parents told them not to have it. No way of course they will disobey you this is Sugar! Most adults would struggle with this too. The school should either separate the kids who need this and won't eat a healthier alternative or just provide a healthier alternative to the whole class.

The school should either separate the kids who need this. You're trying to be satirical here I presume?! Separate the kids whose parents don't/won't provide breakfast?

Data set of % children eligible for FSMs

explore-education-statistics.service.gov.uk/find-statistics/school-pupils-and-their-characteristics

Study showing link between poverty, poor diet and obesity

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6024903/

This has some shocking graphs

www.gov.uk/government/publications/national-child-measurement-programme-ncmp-trends-in-child-bmi-between-2006-to-2007-and-2018-to-2019/national-child-measurement-programme-ncmp-trends-in-child-bmi

Of course jammy bagels in schools is not the cause of childhood obesity/diabetes/tooth decay but it’s not in any way helping the situation.

I’m interested to see how all of those declaring that schools should do better would organise this.

You need to bear in mind :

-The budget is zero. The charity scheme applies in certain circumstances, but in many schools teachers/ heads are paying out of their own pockets.

• It is not possible to cook anything. Some schools don’t actually have kitchens.

• There can be no associated clean-up. Schools can not afford to bring in cleaning staff to cover this, especially given the extra Covid-related cleaning they are already struggling to fund. Schools don’t have staffing to wash up/ run bowls through a dishwasher for hundreds of children.

• Nuts are usually ruled out due to allergies- other allergies may may a factor in particular schools.

• Fruit is only provided to KS1, and even then not in all areas of the UK. It goes off much faster, and is more prone to wastage through damage. As a previous poster found, some fruit has similar nutritional value to the fortified, part- whole meal bagels under discussion.

-Covid controls mean that bubbles can’t mix. Most schools only have just enough classrooms, and one or maybe two shared spaces. There is one member of staff per class. This means that ‘just separating out the ones who haven’t had breakfast’ isn’t Covid compliant, even before you consider the potential emotional impact on already disadvantaged children.

Providing nothing for anybody means that those children who hold have no food until lunchtime may (understandably!) become disengaged or even disruptive in lessons, due to their physical discomfort.

I’m keen to see how people would solve this.

Exactly @Inertia

Here’s one place that’s had results. But as I said upthread, this is not a problem for schools alone to solve.

www.theguardian.com/society/2017/apr/14/amsterdam-solution-obesity-crisis-no-fruit-juice-enough-sleep

I don’t really know what satire is sorry. I said separate the kids who need this, you changed my words. What’s the problem with this presumably the school know which kids since it’s being offered in the first place. Otherwise it’s just letting all kids eat unhealthy food for the sake of covering up which kids need it.

But they are not making them eat it are they? Its a choice is it not?

No it’s not a choice. You can’t expect kids to make a choice to turn down sugar like that under those circumstances

Adults can’t even do that, one reason why obesity is such a problem