Kids snacks at school - white carbs twice before lunch

[prettyflowersinthesky]

DD is in y4.

I seriously don't want to be "that" parent so am wondering on the consensus on this.

DD's school has started giving the whole school's kids stodgy white carbs with jam twice before lunchtime (bagels).

Once when they arrive in the morning, and then again at break time.

DD is coming home with most of her lunch uneaten.

I fully appreciate about food poverty and that giving the kids food in this blanket way is a way of addressing that without singling out or embarrassing hungry children or families.

But I question

1. Whether or not the white carbs plus jam is appropriate nutrition
2. Whether or not most kids really need this
3. Whether or not two snacks between breakfast and lunch is excessive

There is no requirement for the kids to take and eat the snacks but to say to my child not to take them when the other kids are seems unfair.

I'm a bit torn, and certainly don't want to deny hungry kids access to food. But also wonder if the school needs to give this twice and also maybe the nutritional content of the snacks could be improved (e.g. fruit, whole grain snacks or something instead). I do appreciate that kids need more carbs than adults.

What does everyone think? Is this appropriate? I feel for the vast majority of kids without food poverty issues this is not necessary, so by serving all the kids a snack it is enforcing bad snacking habits, poor food choices as well as encouraging childhood obesity.

In many very healthy countries no snacking is allowed although I appreciate for very young children it may be necessary.

I am wondering whether or not to speak to the school about my concerns about them finding a better way to address the issues for the hungry kids.

But I do not want to speak up if I am seriously misinformed about all of this, hence interested in your responses. Thanks.

Yanbu = this is not appropriate / YABU - give the kids the snacks

@Janevaljane given that schools have zero budget and zero staff available to feed hungry children, class bubbles cannot mix, what would you do as a headteacher?

Stop wasting money by providing breakfast to those who don't need it. Drop the sugary snack. Ask around to see if local shops would donate fruit twice a week. Give water instead. All perfectly normal suggestions. Our state primary didn't encourage snacks. They had a breakfast club for breakfast.

If kids are eating breakfast at home then getting 2 x jam bagels before lunch, most of them will get fat.

@CloudyVanilla "Don't ask them to stop providing food, lots of kids rely on it."

At no point did the OP ask them to stop providing food and was very clear in her OP that she did not want hungry kids to be denied food if they need it. What is so hard for people to understand about this, if they read her OP and subsequent posts they might fathom this. Talk about twisting the point.

@Janevaljane your primary must be in a very fortunate position to have enough space and staff to run a separate breakfast club for each bubble. The old system of one breakfast club where children across all classes could mix and be supervised by one or two staff is not possible under Covid guidelines, so given that most classes have literally just the teacher, all of the children from that class have to stay together. Your system would point out to all the children which ones have FSM, which is why the charity schemes are universal.

Schools obviously know which children have FSM, but this doesn’t pick up children from families which might not qualify but still don’t have breakfast. Some families don’t realise they can still apply for FSM if the children are infants.

And our local shops are independent businesses struggling to keep afloat themselves in current circumstances, , I doubt they can afford to give away hundreds of pounds worth of stock every week.

I think we’ve established that it’s not 2 whole bagels! However I think the good intentions of the scheme has generated another problem that OP has only become aware because her DD is barely touching her pack lunch (presumably she was eating it all when she was last in school). Other children will manage their whole pack lunch or whole school lunch despite the bagels and may indeed put on weight. While the scheme will help children who are genuinely hungry who literally do not get enough to eat, there will be many others whose diet is adequate in terms of calories but is not particularly varied or nutritious. For those children, filling them up with bagels so they aren’t hungry for their school lunch is not particularly helpful.

Jam bagels are absolute crap. I'd be looking at the head teacher and team to see if they are very overweight, if so they may not have a grasp on nutrition for children.

@Janevaljane one of the most important things to do to narrow the attainment gap between disadvantaged children and non-disadvantaged children is to ensure there is no stigmatisation. No "we are poor" label around these kids' necks. They can have enough to cope with. In non-covid times there are more flexible options. But right now? Better to offer to all. Especially as the numbers on FSM is going up and will continue to do so. And as above, a bagel may not be great but it is not awful. And kids need carbs!

@UncleFoster

I did a bit of nutritional analysis

A bagel contains 2.3g fibre, an apple 2.4g

An apple contains 16g of sugar, a bagel contains 4g.

A bagel contains 8g of protein, an 8-9 yr old needs about 20g a day. Thats about 30-40%.

A bagel is fortified with niacin, thiamine, iron and magnesium There is small amounts of calcium

An apple contains mostly vitamin c and potassium, also about 1% RDA vit a and some smaller quantities of other vitamins. Both contain equal amounts of b6

Admittedly the jam is mostly sugar. There are some vitamins in jam in small quantities (approx 2% of rda vit c in a teaspoon)

If your concerned about fibre a bagel and an apple are the same. A bagel has many more carbs but less sugar. It also contains protein not available in an apple. Vitamins and minerals wise both have benefits but a bagel with Jam contains a wider selection. If I were to chose only one food the bagel is better.

For those still going on about the nutritional value I thought this post was worth another share

A jam bagel has no nutrition in it and a huge amount of sugar. Giving one to everyone is a massive waste of money. If you want to give something to everyone then it needs to be healthy, a banana or apple.

It's naive to think we don't have a huge obesity crisis in this country.

Yet still nobody has offered a viable alternative which is deliverable in schools with no budget for this, in a no-mixed-bubbles environment.
The hungry children still need feeding, yet somehow it’s intolerable that parents of well-fed children could teach their children that it’s fine to say no thanks they are not hungry.

A bagel with butter would be better than jam, signed, my cavity ridden teeth as sugary shit food has always been cheaper then healthier options, and that's all I ate at home, and seemingly would be expected to at school because something is better than nothing.

A jam bagel is not better for you than an apple. It has far more sugar and less fibre. An average apple has 4.4g of fibre. A New York bagel has 2.4g. And far more calories.

Amazing how people have the time to spend tying themselves in knots to defend the indefensible!

If the school wants to waste their money giving a shit breakfast to all kids, then that's just about ok.

Why give the same thing as a snack a couple of hours later?

Not only are jam bagels sugary crap but is this not also covering up a problem? Surely if you aren't giving your child a breakfast then social care need to be involved with the family to work on why that's happening and prevent it from being ongoing?

God people are vile on here.

Of course it's better that kids getting no food get something filling. It's not the best option by far, but it's the least worst.

For breakfast, yes. Not as a snack as well.

My school has just started this as well, but only with butter.

I'll just point out, it's not a whole bagel. It's half of a half. So, a quarter of a bagel.

And your daughter doesn't have to take it. Everywhere I've seen that does it, it's offered, but not forced upon them!

So they get a quarter of a white bagel with marge for breakfast and then the same as a snack?

@Marmitecrackers

Not only are jam bagels sugary crap but is this not also covering up a problem? Surely if you aren't giving your child a breakfast then social care need to be involved with the family to work on why that's happening and prevent it from being ongoing?

Social care?

If these parents know school can provide breakfast then that takes that pressure off.

Yet still nobody has offered a viable alternative which is deliverable in schools with no budget for this, in a no-mixed-bubbles environment.
The hungry children still need feeding, yet somehow it’s intolerable that parents of well-fed children could teach their children that it’s fine to say no thanks they are not hungry.

Porridge? Wholemeal toast?

And just 1 breakfast is plenty & only short term for the kids that need it whilst you resolve why its not happening at home.

I can see why we have so many chubby children if people think jam bagels twice a morning is normal.

@Janevaljane

A jam bagel is not better for you than an apple. It has far more sugar and less fibre. An average apple has 4.4g of fibre. A New York bagel has 2.4g. And far more calories.

Amazing how people have the time to spend tying themselves in knots to defend the indefensible!

If you haven't eaten that day though, and are a growing child, then you need calories more than you need fibre.

Not only are jam bagels sugary crap but is this not also covering up a problem? Surely if you aren't giving your child a breakfast then social care need to be involved with the family to work on why that's happening and prevent it from being ongoing?

I longed for someone to help me when I was at school, rather than free school meals or being able to go in the 'beggars box' (not my name for it but widely acceptable then) for uniform, but to realise that I had a shit home life and deserved better. That's why all of those crowing how amazing it is that those poor, hungry children can have some sugary shit for breakfast and how amazing that is is pretty sad. It's terrible that people know some children live in shitty homes with shitty parents and there's fuck all they can do about it.

I can see why we have so many chubby children if people think jam bagels twice a morning is normal

Noone on here thinks its normal, they just love an argument!

If these parents know school can provide breakfast then that takes that pressure off.

For some, yes. For others it's a nice excuse not to bother.