DS been asked to leave school due to low CAT score.

[omgitcantbetrue]

Just had a meeting with DS Prep school and I'm feeling so worried and anxious for DS.

He scored 92 average on the CAT test.
The teacher gently informed me this means he'll not manage to achieve above a C grade in any subject at GCSE. He's only in year 5, and I'm amazed they can make such predictions.
I was then informed that it's in his best interest to transition to a more gentle secondary school.
I don't know what I want really. Advice from parents in a similar position?
Are her life prospects totally limited? With C's only I'm assumings he'll never go to University. Which is fine. I'm worried for his prospects.
Do children who score 92 ever improve? How below average is this?
Thanks for reading

DD's prep school is a bit like this. One of the things I don't like about it. As other PP have said unless they are proposing to do something quite dramatic to help support your DS in the next 2 years (sounds unlikely) then move him now - don't give them your money to sell your DS short.

My dyslexia wasn't diagnosed until A-levels and I think DD is dyslexic as well - I can see her doing many of the things I did (unconsciously) to hide that I can't spell for shit.

I got a few Cs at GCSE, did better in some but nothing spectacular. At 6th form - different school, amazing teachers, a double diagnosis of dyslexia and high IQ and I ended up with the equivalent of 5 1/2 As at A-level and an offer from Oxbridge.

So in a better setting where they do not equate average grades at AGE 9 and dyslexia with not worth bothering with and then what...map out someone's future on this basis - he and you will be happier.

Screw them! I'm annoyed for you and him.

Oh and incidentally I don't think you should write your son off at all. I do think you should send him to a school which is less academically rigid and is prepared to put the time and effort to help a child with additional needs succeed.

And I would start looking now and move him start of year 6 absolute latest. It gives him a better chance to settle. Plus, bluntly, why give a school which has written your child off at the age of 9 any more of your hard earned cash?

Sir John Gurdon, 2012 Nobel Prize winner, had his disastrous report card framed. It's displayed on his office wall.

PM-ed, you, OP.

FreakyForestier, thanks for that and good on the Prof!

Indeed Motor he seems like a nice man and by all accounts he's polymathic with an interest in history as well as medicine.

But Freebird, I think perhaps you are talking about private schools that aren’t selective rather than selective ones. Perhaps that’s where we are at very slight cross purposes.

Yes, lots of parents choose non selective schools. They have the cash and they just want a nice environment for their children. They might live in areas where a small amount if the population can afford fees and actually the schools aren’t very selective anyway. They’d like decent grades for their kids but they aren’t overly worried. And lots of senior schools in the private sector aren’t very selective at all (and some struggle to fill whatever they tell you) and consequently their results are very average and lots of state school,S do better than them. And if the parents are happy it’s all fine.

But there is also a selective and a very selective independent school market too. Perhaps it’s not where you live, but there are countless threads every year about this.

I’m not saying all schools are selective or all parents want that either. But if you find yourself in an area or in a school which feeds very selective schools, there is always the risk that your child won’t get into the next stage....quite simply because there is far more demand than places. People have to know the reality of what they are choosing at a young age and where it leads to (or doesn’t) and I really think most people do know that, but some people seem to forget or or utterly shocked when it’s their child that isn’t going to the next stage. But by the very nature of it being highly competitive, this must always be the case.

They sound vile.

If you have any Quaker schools in your area, have a look at them. Their ethos is that every child is good at something, and it's their job to find out what that is and support them to the hilt in that. Helped one of my DC over a bump and they are now going great guns in their career. 💐

All of these stories about famously intelligent people bombing on report cards are fantastic!

Will PM you

OP, my DD is dyslexic and when she was 8 in our innocence we approached some of the local private schools naively believing she might get more help than in her state primary. They couldn't have been less interested for all the reasons other posters have listed above. One used the 'below the national average' line.

Actually they did us a favour as the help she needed was in the state sector once we knew how to get it. She's bright, and acutely aware of how her SpLD affects her attainment. School will never be straightforward for that reason but it suits her much better to be in a truly mixed ability environment.

The minority of views above supporting your son's school's approach - I'm willing to bet that none of them have ever had a child with SpLD. It's different when it's your kid who's being managed out.

Utter rubbish. My ds has Aspergers, he’s 17 now. When he did his SATS in year 6 he got a 3 in science, a 4 in maths and a 5 in English. His secondary school used that data to place him in a lowish set which was completely wrong for ds.

After excelling right through school he got amazing GCSE’s last year ( including grade 9’s ) and is now doing his A levels and applying for university.

The school want your money for the next 2 years, that is all.
Your ds is 9/10 and has not reached anywhere near his full potential yet. What a disgusting way to treat children.

The teacher hasn't written off OPs child. They have quite honestly suggested that the school is not a good fit. It's actually quite surprising that they have done this, and a sign that they care, as prep schools in this market need to keep their fee income up. Losing pupils is not something they want to do.

I went to a very academic school. I thrived there as I am vey academic. It was a great fit for me. My best friend was bright, but not top 2% bright. She spent her entire secondary school life at the bottom of the class. She got Cs, where the rest of us got As. It completely destroyed her self esteem, and she is very upset that her parents didn't take the school's advice that she might do better in a different setting.

I would take this at face value, and look for an environment that your DS will thrive in. One with the right support for his needs. One where he will not be struggling to keep up. I'd also thank his teacher for caring enough to give you a heads up.

I once attended an evening class with a local prep school teacher who was in charge of the 11 plus tuition. Her biggest gripe was the response she got from parents when she gently suggested their dcs were not suited to the 11 plus route. It wasn't about the school results. It was about the dcs. She was a lovely caring woman who did not want children who were absolutely not going to pass put through the whole exam process only to end up failing and feeling like they had let their parents down. Or worse, dcs tutored to within an inch of their lives, so they scraped through and ended up (like my friend) forever at the bottom of the class feeling thick, when they are anything but.

Picking a school is about fit as much as anything.

Haven’t RTFT but a CAT score is a (very basic, online) IQ test.
Considering the average population score is between 85 and 114 for their IQ, your son is doing just fine. Completely average, with the rest of the world.
Of course he will be able to go to Uni! I’ve known children with scores in the 70s who have went into Uni. Of course he will be able to get good GCSE and A level results.
The school, on the other hand, sound totally results driven and willing to give up on anyone that is average or standard. So it would be up to you if you want to continue your child’s education in that way.
Please do not be discouraged though- your child sounds like they fall completely within the average range!

@WombatChocolate I am glad you agreed with my first post. Re London schools I am slightly confused about how you are getting insights into all these parents' thought processes? I also think you are, again, wrong, because I am from London and I went to a selective school in London and I talk to many parents in London about schools when I am there and the overwhelming sense I get is that it is extremely hard to get children into any of the selective schools because there are so many children vying for not enough places. The parents are all very down to earth and often with an air of slight desperation because most of the alternatives in London really are completely and utterly dire. And in relation to many schools we are talking frequent gang fights with knives. Really nothing to do with exclusivity or parents wanting to buy into exclusivity just for the sake of exclusivity. And the private schools in London often have acres of land and superb facilities as per my earlier post. So again I think you are misinformed here.

OP that school is a business. They want results and they want your money. They literally do not care about supporting your son. Find a better school!

*mostly very down to earth that should say!

17:55Nanny0gg

omgitcantbetrue

Yes CAT is Cognitive ability test. I think average is 100, but have no idea. Teacher said DS scored below national average. I’m researching online but not managed to understand much....
i want to take him and move asap, but teacher pointed out that it might be easier socially for him to move in year 7, when many other children would also be moving.

They want to keep your money for another couple of years.

Look around for better

Nannyogg my first thought was exactly this.... Money money money..

I admittedly have no experience of private school education, but if it this had been my daughter I could see this happening... Extremely bright child, but her sats were scored low at state primary. She chose the worst performing secondary school in our city against my wishes... She begged me not to send her to my choice of a highest performing school. She blossomed there and exceeded her targets ( the teachers there were far better than the higher achieving school I discovered with my other two who attended there).. they worked with her got her brilliant GCSE results, then in 6th form we discovered that she was Autistic. The school went into overdrive to ensure that she got her dream to go to Uni and got a first in English Literature she is now doing her Masters in English Literature.. I have thought about this myself if I had of worked my butt off to send her Private like my Mom wanted me to, would she have been written off because she didn't meet their criteria.. I think yes she would have. It happened to another family member of ours.. private school all the way her parents were told that she wouldn't get her GCSEs but they were happy to keep her in their school if they wanted too. Guess what she failed everything.

If I was you I would look to move your DC now to some where that he will blossom and reach his potential

Cat is Cognative Abilities Test and it's done to set out a grade score through schooling to basically give the child estimated GCSE results. It's kind of like a series of test and each score is marked down on graph paper so to speak then they work out a flight path of where they expect the child to be in terms of grades at certain ages / schooling years. They should then look at what to do to help them reach their expected grade. Hope that makes sense.
That said they shouldn't be writing off a little boy in year 5... What support does school have in place to support his dyslexia now OP??

92 is in the average range. That CAT score gives at 12% probability of achieving 5+ GCSEs at grades 5-9 including English and Maths. So what your prep school is saying is they don't have the skills or expertise to close that gap over the next few years and increase his percentage chances. In which case, what are you paying for? The whole idea that intelligence is fixed and you can't improve is absolute nonsense. Big data cannot accurately predict an individual's ability, there is a range and there will always be students that sit at extremes.

Of course they are going to be able to sell themselves as having the ability to churn out top performers, if they are curating an intake that would has a high percentage chance of doing well anyway.

You have been given a mean score. Ask if he has performed consistently across the 4 areas: verbal, quantitive, non-verbal and spatial. Is he biased in one of these areas?

If you read Rosenthal and Jacobson (1968) Pygmalion in the Classroom, you will probably want to move him anyway as they don't believe in their own teaching abilities and they have already certainly written your son off.

I think this is quite common in independent schools especially those that go 3/4 -18 and claim to be selective at an early age. You just cannot accurately assess kids very young. My DD was at an all through GDST school and in year 5 they all sat CAT and it was all a bit hush and hush and parents were told not to prepare but afterwards anyone with I think lower than a certain Grade (maybe around 5/6 out of 9) in maths/English/verbal and non verbal was told they were borderline. This school actually does cater very well to dyslexia but they always felt they could only take a certain percentage of girls with that kind of score through the school as they would need extra support to achieve the grades the school aims for (minimum 6/7 at GCSE). So the school would actually give the girls already there priority over other kids coming in at 11 plus they just wanted to plan ahead. I do wonder whether you should go a bit deeper and find out what support is available for your DS. I also think you should definitely insist on a second test and ask about the rest of his work and how it compares. Sometimes DC do just have an off day or the computer was slow, these things happen.

Hmm not sure what happened there with my grammar once I posted.. I did check it all before I pressed send, I promise you x

92 is within the average range, and so much can change in 6 years. Clearly the school is not the best one for your child though if they are feel they can't support people with that cat score, probably means teaching is weak, sure they'll be much better schools for your child's needs out there where they will be happier

This is what l loathe about certain preps... they only care about high grades not individual achievement..a truly great independent school worth the fees, would develop his abilities and overcome any issues kindly and with sensitivity.

I would find a way to move him sooner without him being upset if possible, luckily not all Preps are like this and he deserves to be in a school that nurtures his abilities.

They are out there op good luck.

Yes, it will always feel hideous when it’s your child being managed out. Of course people take it personally ...it feels like an attack in their child and an attack in themselves. I can see that.

The thing is, in selective education, there aren’t places for all. If schools don’t warn parents, they don’t do their job. It might well be that the system is wrong and SEN isn’t properly understood or accounted for and schools only look at paper results such as CATs when they are faced with 800 applicants for 80 places, because knowing about the individual child is so tricky and time consuming.

Teachers in Prep schools exist and operate within the system we live in. Their selective senior attached school probably sends them a rough quota of how many they can take from the Prep or a ‘standard’ below which they won’t take. And the Prep has to send a list and manage the expectations of those families not on the list. If there are too many children, some won’t get places and those who don’t or unlikely to perform well in the chosen method of testing, quite simply won’t get the places.

This is different to categorically telling someone what their GCSEs will or won’t be in 7 years time. I’m hard pushed to imagine anyone saying it quite like this or expressing it as a certainty for a particular child. Instead it might be expressed in terms of data for thousands of students suggests that on average......is a likely outcome. And I’d expect any teacher to couch any such results in terms of attainment seen in the classroom over many years. Sometimes parents struggle to hear a message related many times and perhaps more drastic methods are taken to explain the situation.....or perhaps it’s just that parents hear one thing when teachers said something else.

Op, your son isn’t writtten off. He has a good future ahead of him because you care about him and will work hard to find the right school for him that will help him succeed in whatever form that may take for him and nine of us can say 7 years before exactly what form that will be. Some schools will suit him more than others and it will be up to you (and the Prep if you want them involved) to find that right place for him.

I would look around at other schools now OP. I would worry that the school’s emphasis is going to be more and more on entry exams for senior school as they move nearer that age, and what your son needs is help to find the right learning methods for his dyslexia. I feel this school won’t provide that help and he will fall behind whereas the correct school will help him to flourish.

My dd went to outstanding schools according to OFSTED. But as she was in low sets she, and the rest of her set, were written off by teachers which meant she stopped believing in herself. She did pass some GCSEs and at this point we got her tested and found she has several special learning needs, despite the school repeatedly saying she hadn’t.

My point of telling that about my dd was that had we trusted our gut and moved her to a different school she may well have done a lot better than she did as bottom of the pile at a high achieving school.

Research other schools and visit any that sound promising and trust your instincts.