How should covid be paid for?

[KenDodd]

I think there should be a small wealth tax (up to 1%) and before anyone starts saying I'm just jealous or whatever, I would be in for thousands of pounds that I don't have and would have to owe. I feel really strongly that we can't just load yet more debt onto the young, they have it much worse than my generation did already (I'm 51).

Yabu - No to wealth tax
Yanbu - Yes to wealth tax

If you vote No, please suggest an alternative that you think would be fairer.

How about we collect tax from those avoiding paying tax or closing those loop holes worldwide so they cannot just move.

I think we should scrap council tax and have a version of the poll tax, lore people in the household more you pay since your using more of the services.

Pay to drive on the roads by miles you drive on.

Stop wasting money on projects for one thing. Start making the money we do spend actually be worthwhile and hold those companies accountable for not delivering

Go back in time and make sure Gordon Brown didn't sell off our gold! What a stupid stupid mistake...not so funny now

@MangoBiscuit

Shit example

covid was lied about by the Chinese

It's not like you took your car to a garage they damaged it and broke the brakes

You drove it out the garage didn't know and ran someone over and killed them

Who's fault is it? Yours or the gage age

@hemhem

I work in tax. All these ideas about wealth tax have been discussed for many years and if they actually raised tax revenue would have been implemented by now. There are too many difficulties in how to value wealth, how to account for offshore assets, how to value pension pots, shares etc. The whole thing would become a massive risk for being manipulated. Evidence shows that a tax on consumption is the most effective way of a gvt raising revenue.

All those people saying look at corporations need to remember that corporation tax is a relatively small source of tax revenue overall. what is more important is the number of people these companies employ and the PAYE/ NIC contributions they make.

Well said. Agree with every word of that. People come up with "stop offshore tax evasion" as if they're the first person to have thought of it. It's been high on the agenda of many developed countries for years and steps are being taken, but it takes time to agree cross-border treaties. You have to be careful of doing more harm than good. Corporation tax receipts increased when we reduced corporation tax rates because fewer companies moved abroad and more foreign companies moved to the UK, meaning more UK employment, more UK PAYE/NIC paid, etc etc.

[quote CayrolBaaaskin]@KenDodd - are you suggesting it be levied on all wealth? Or would some (Eg final salary pensions or Family homes) be exempt? How would people pay for it if they couldn’t afford it upfront? Does the state take a charge on their property or pension?

I think we need to extend NI to pensioners. And apply cgt to family homes. Also perhaps even consider abolishing universal state pensions and definitely remove all final salary public sector pensions.[/quote]
Yep, agree. NIC on ALL income (inc pensions, dividends, rents etc) would be a good start to level the playing field. At the moment, it's only "workers" who pay NIC which is unfair. Alternatively, scrap NIC and increase income tax instead.

Crazy situation when a worker is paying student loans, workplace pension, tax and NIC, but a pensioner on the same income is only paying basic rate tax.

I think a sliding tax scale like in the Scandinavian countries would be a good place to start.

When the pandemic hit what did most people want? Food, shelter and to be able to see the people they love most. That’s primal, animal instincts at play. We need to rethink the way we look at money and economics completely.

Tax

Start with Amazon

-Stop foreign aid.
-Stop HS2.
-CGT on main homes -> many older people have got benefited from massive unearned, untaxed gains and since most of the covid restrictions are mainly for their welfare they should pay for it rather than lumbering younger generations with income tax increases when they will receive far less generous (if any) state freebies than the older generations did.
-Hugely increase CGT for second homes/BTL/holiday homes/Airbnb.
-Reduce benefits (many of which are a disgused subsidy to big business and the wealthy such as tax credits and housing benefit).
-Merge NI and income tax.
-Increase tax on consumption (VAT).
-Increase tariffs on goods from China.
-Close loopholes that mean the rich can avoid tax by putting wealth in trusts.
-Find out who owns the majority of the land that is not listed on the land registry and tax the fuck out of them (i.e. Introduce a proper Land Value Tax that can't be got out of).
-Crack down on corporate tax avoidance.
-Make pensions and benefits contributory and paid out what they have paid in so that people aren't receiving 40 years of pension for 20-30 years of work with minimal or no NI or tax contributions.

I'm repeating myself but seeing as people are still focusing on corporate tax, what exactly do you think companies like Amazon currently pay tax on in the UK?

think we should scrap council tax and have a version of the poll tax, lore people in the household more you pay since your using more of the services

Yes, because that went so well the last time. Its only benefit was that it brought Thatcher down.

How about we have a full time starting salary that allows you to live without needing to claim universal credit. That way more people could pay a small amount of tax and the country wouldn't be subsidising big business profits.

Well we can hope for whatever we want, but it will be more, more and more from the young and poor until they're bled white again.

Foreign aid is miniscule ffs.

I'm one of the lucky ones who would be taxed more. I agree with you.

I'd like Amazon to pay their fair share too, though!

I think it could be better to extend the bands for council tax , the bands were devised in early 90s so outdated, perhaps a charge for multimillion pound homes owned by overseas investors that never live there. Could add a couple of mansion bands at the top end

@KenDodd

Oh and a wealth tax works but adding up the value of all your assets, deducting any debts and applying a tax to the remainder.

So spenders would benefit from paying less tax if they stick it on cards?

I'm not necessarily against thinking about a wealth tax, but I'd need that huge policy shift to be well thought out, with modeling that withstands some reasonable level of scrutiny. Especially now when we might be about to find out exactly what Brexit is going to look like, which is of course all tied up with the decision to defer the budget.

Once Brexit is a least a bit more of a known quantity we can start to make long term fiscal plans. But I wouldn't try and "pay for covid" just one way. I would look at all options.

@cyclingmad

How about we collect tax from those avoiding paying tax or closing those loop holes worldwide so they cannot just move.

I think we should scrap council tax and have a version of the poll tax, lore people in the household more you pay since your using more of the services.

Pay to drive on the roads by miles you drive on.

Stop wasting money on projects for one thing. Start making the money we do spend actually be worthwhile and hold those companies accountable for not delivering

Go back in time and make sure Gordon Brown didn't sell off our gold! What a stupid stupid mistake...not so funny now

This is hilarious - especially the one about time travel and the ridiculous "Gordon sold off all our Gold" bollocks.

www.ft.com/content/5788dbac-7680-11e0-b05b-00144feabdc0

The biggest asset most of us own is our house. Many of the people who have to pay 1% of the house value as a tax would need to sell it to raise that kind of money. I'm guessing it would tank the housing market as many people sell up to pay the tax. The market for smaller houses would be put under pressure, prices would rise. And on top of that, those that are forced to sell would have to pay stamp on the new house. So a double win for the government, but a massive hit for anyone who has worked their life to pay off a mortgage. And price increases for first time buyers.

Many of the people who have to pay 1% of the house value as a tax would need to sell it to raise that kind of money

Really? It’s £10k for a million pound house so I somehow doubt it.

[quote cultkid]@MangoBiscuit

Shit example

covid was lied about by the Chinese

It's not like you took your car to a garage they damaged it and broke the brakes

You drove it out the garage didn't know and ran someone over and killed them

Who's fault is it? Yours or the gage age [/quote]
Really? Then how come it was all over the news? How come we knew it was heading this way, and that other countries were locking down hard, well before our government reacted?

If you want to use the broken brake analogy, then you're missing out that the warning lights have all come on on the dashboard, and the brakes clearly weren't right when you left the garage, but you ignored it, and hit someone.

@TheEmojiFormerlyKnownAsPrince "yeah bet you were one of the ones who voted for and thrived under Thatch" lol - is that a response to my post that if you are really concerned about intergenerational unfairness, you could give up a universal state pension and final salary public sector pension that younger people will pay for but wont get? Seems that you are more concerned about your own privilege than fairness for anyone else. Clearly you have more in common with Thatcher than you would like to think!

@hemhem - I agree re. corporate tax. There is so much rubbish on here re. Amazon, etc. from people with no idea at all of their tax affairs in the UK or elsewhere. People want easy answers and to get things that they don't have to pay for. So shouting "tax Amazon" works well for this. Unfortunately Amazon already pays vast amounts of tax and there's no evidence that a significant amount of money can be easily raised from tax compliance from large companies.

1% of my house as a tax is £5k a year thats £500 pm ...flipping insane if you think people cab afford to pay hundreds of pounds like that.

If we didn't waste money we would have so much to pay back for example:

Billions paid on failed technology systems

Millions paid out in recent schemes to help businesses out that didnt qualify but got it anyway

More millions if not billions paid into NHS system that is inefficient as it is throwing more money without fixing the issues first

Millions being paid to the Queen to bail her out because her investment funds have gone down ( oh boo how not going to make as much profit ) wtaf are we doing bailing her out? Are you happy to pay more tax to cover this? I'm not!

Millions paid out to bail out small league football clubs, right so premier league have millions to spend buying footballers but could use it to bail out the smaller foot ball teams?

These are just some of the examples of what needs to be paid back....

How many out of that list are you happy to pay more tax for?

@LadyofMisrule - what specifically would you like Amazon to pay in tax that they do not already pay? Do you think that there should be a special tax rate for Amazon or are you alleging they dont comply with the law on tax? If not, why have HMRC not raised this with them?

Many of the people who have to pay 1% of the house value as a tax would need to sell it to raise that kind of money

Really? It’s £10k for a million pound house so I somehow doubt it

Yes, really...... oh wait, I'll just look under the bed and find the 10k I have stashed under there.... ffs

@CaptainVanesHair - don't we already have tax on a sliding scale (ie a progressive income tax system) "like the Scandinavian countries"?