How should covid be paid for?

[KenDodd]

I think there should be a small wealth tax (up to 1%) and before anyone starts saying I'm just jealous or whatever, I would be in for thousands of pounds that I don't have and would have to owe. I feel really strongly that we can't just load yet more debt onto the young, they have it much worse than my generation did already (I'm 51).

Yabu - No to wealth tax
Yanbu - Yes to wealth tax

If you vote No, please suggest an alternative that you think would be fairer.

Amazon PAY MORE, not PATMORE! Not sure where that came from!

You are funny.

Brexit and the Tory win in 2019 should help you realise that your views are not how the majority think.

As I keep pointing out, telling high earners that they should cough up and shut up isn’t going to end up with the result you want.

Brexit and the Tory win in 2019 should help you realise that your views are not how the majority think

Neither of those events achieved a majority vote. Brexit was voted for by 37% of the electorate and the Tory landslide was achieved on 48% of votes cast.

Neither of those events achieved a majority vote. Brexit was voted for by 37% of the electorate and the Tory landslide was achieved on 48% of votes cast.

I know that, however the results meant that the right are currently in charge.

But that isn’t what you said! You used them as evidence for what the majority think. And they’re nothing of the sort.

As I keep pointing out, telling high earners that they should cough up and shut up isn’t going to end up with the result you want.

Yes, you have repeatedly given us your opinion on that particular matter, ie that higher taxation would turn us into a version of the US and make poor people poorer. I consider your evidence base to be flawed and your thought processes tenuous.

that higher taxation would turn us into a version of the US and make poor people poorer.

You are incorrect. That isn’t what I said.

Labour has not won an election since 2005. When it did win it was under the first past the post system that works best for Tories and Labour. It was more than happy to claim victory then rather than want proportional representation. Most people want Tory policies than Labour. Actually the high spend high tax party in the middle this time sadly the Tories always wins in the UK. there is no low tax small state party for me although the Tories are the best place to hope for it when the nation sees sense.

I think our interest bill on the increased national debt even at current low rates is going to be very high which is a bit of a waste. The planet is certainly in a difficult situation due to CV19 and also the measures states have taken against it.

Those who earn more can usually reduce tax as can those who don't earn much to an extent -eg using the single person allowance of husband and wife rather than just one of them. Organising your tax affairs so as to keep the most is fine, lawful and a moral good in my view.

@TazMac

that higher taxation would turn us into a version of the US and make poor people poorer.

You are incorrect. That isn’t what I said.

You said

fear that we are heading more and more towards a US system. Due to the unsustainable system we have now - unfortunately people who support the “well the higher earners will just have to cough up and pay because that’s the right thing to do” line are playing into right wing hands

Talk is cheap. People say they're willing to pay more tax, but when it comes down to it, most won't.

I remember a classic example. I had a client who was a teacher (school union rep) and local Labour councillor. He started a small business which he ran in the school holidays. At first, when it was making losses or small profits, he was fine, very accepting of small tax bills on it etc. Trouble started when it took off and, along with his teaching wages, he started going into the higher rate tax territory and he got his first "big" tax bill based on 40% of his business profits. His entire attitude changed - wanted to know if he could claim more household costs, could he pay his wife, could he pay his son, could he claim his car through the business, even tried to claim a holiday! Eventually he incorporated it to escape the 40% tax (In Gordon Browns low company tax days!). That was from a Labour activist! To say I was shocked is an understatement - especially after the initial meetings where he was happy to pay tax etc.

If you read my posts I clearly state that I support a Scandinavian system of higher taxes but better state provision for ALL.

Which is what we had here until the 1980s. The architects of the post war welfare state understood that in order to get the buy in from the higher earners, they also had to be getting something back. The U.K. system changed to needs based in the 1980s and that social contract with the state ended.

Just because a few posters, in a mumsnet echo chamber, think that higher earners paying more tax is the right thing to do, doesn’t mean the wider public agree with you. Recent election results should tell you that.

Just because a few posters, in a mumsnet echo chamber, think that higher earners paying more tax is the right thing to do, doesn’t mean the wider public agree with you. Recent election results should tell you that

I thought we’d put the election results representing a majority to bed.

I fear that we are heading more and more towards a US system.

These don't sound like the words of a right winger who wants to go towards a US style system to me.

I was wondering why the government doesn't allow people to 'donate' additional tax or voluntarily increase their tax rate - so those who can afford it pay more.

DH and I have both been working from home on full pay and could afford to pay some more tax. We can (and are) donating to local charities supporting those who have been affected but bring able to pay extra tax to help meet the costs could also work.

Appreciate not everyone will but they might be able to raise a decent amount and not hit those who are struggling.

These don't sound like the words of a right winger who wants to go towards a US style system to me.

Do keep up. Taz opined that if you increase taxes for higher earners, it would drive a right wing agenda and we’d end up more like the US. With the likely outcome that things would become worse for the poor.

Separately, (s)he said that she thought we should be more like Scandinavia with much higher taxes and better state benefits.

(S)he didn’t say that she supported the right, and nor did anyone suggest that (s)he did.

I don’t agree with the first conclusion. The subject of this thread is how Covid should be paid for. The answer is obvious: higher taxes. The people who can afford to pay higher taxes, should. That’s the higher earners. Including me. Paying more tax won’t make me change my political inclinations.

@Chocoqueen You can. Here is the link

www.dmo.gov.uk/media/16545/donations-and-bequests-donation-form.pdf

Please feel free to post a copy of your donation (with personal details redacted of course).

As badbadbunny says, talk is cheap. All these people who come out with this guff will make full use of all allowances so it's all hypocritical bollocks that would fall at the first hurdle if "wealth taxes" were actually imposed.

The answer is obvious: higher taxes. The people who can afford to pay higher taxes, should. That’s the higher earners. Including me.

It’s obvious? Not to all, some people may think that austerity is the obvious solution.

All these people who come out with this guff will make full use of all allowances

You keep trotting this out. Perhaps you could explain how paying tax in line with HMRC requirements and being fully prepared and willing to pay more equates to hypocrisy because you use your perfectly legitimate tax allowances?

My point is, @VinylDetective that we don't do just flat rate taxes in the UK, with no loopholes, no get out clauses or whatever. Instead, we have allowances for this and that where you can squirrel away money away from the Treasury coffers.

If we did, then no one could "get away" with anything - which at the end of the day, making use of these allowances is. You don't have to do it and you could donate to the national debt (www.dmo.gov.uk/media/16545/donations-and-bequests-donation-form.pdf) but I bet you don't and won't.

However, if you did, you would be puting your money where you mouth is, as opposed to spouting off about how much more tax you would be willing to pay. Nope, you would be taking the initiative.

But then you criticise when others make use of private healthcare as just "buying privilege" (and are totally blinkered to the added effect that it does have the advantage of also relieving the system we all pay into) whilst "buying that privilege" yourself when it helps you because you didn't want to wait for an operation.

But then you criticise when others make use of private healthcare as just "buying privilege" (and are totally blinkered to the added effect that it does have the advantage of also relieving the system we all pay into) whilst "buying that privilege" yourself when it helps you because you didn't want to wait for an operation

Once again - how many more times do I have to repeat this? - I didn’t criticise you for buying privilege. I criticised you for trying to pass it off as being some kind of altruistic public service.

Sure, I bought privilege and prevented myself from going blind. It was a selfish thing to do which benefitted nobody except me and my surgeon. That’s the difference. I own my selfishness and entitlement. You try and pass yours off as social responsibility.

Wow @Lampgenie snarky much? What I contribute is my business, and I'm comfortable with that and don't feel the need to justify whether I do or don't do this to an internet stranger. However thank you for posting the the link as I genuinely didn't know you could do that and will look into it. And I suspect most other people don't either.

@TazMac

The answer is obvious: higher taxes. The people who can afford to pay higher taxes, should. That’s the higher earners. Including me.

It’s obvious? Not to all, some people may think that austerity is the obvious solution.

Or start with the £40bn lost to the black economy and tax evasion each year

You know perfectly well that what I was saying was that it had it's benefits and if you eliminated people's ability to pay into the system but use their own money to pay for other services it would be a false economy as it relieved up resources that they would otherwise use for others.

Instead, you went on to show a sarcastic prejudice, that was blown out the water when you admited your own hypocrisy.

Yes @Chocoqueen it is your business, until you start preaching to others

@LampGenie

You know perfectly well that what I was saying was that it had it's benefits and if you eliminated people's ability to pay into the system but use their own money to pay for other services it would be a false economy as it relieved up resources that they would otherwise use for others.

Instead, you went on to show a sarcastic prejudice, that was blown out the water when you admited your own hypocrisy.

If you say so. The posts are all here so I guess people will make up their own minds. My sarcastic prejudice was initially to congratulate you on your altruism.