How should covid be paid for?

[KenDodd]

I think there should be a small wealth tax (up to 1%) and before anyone starts saying I'm just jealous or whatever, I would be in for thousands of pounds that I don't have and would have to owe. I feel really strongly that we can't just load yet more debt onto the young, they have it much worse than my generation did already (I'm 51).

Yabu - No to wealth tax
Yanbu - Yes to wealth tax

If you vote No, please suggest an alternative that you think would be fairer.

It would really depend on where the "wealth line" is drawn. An older person who has saved all their lives to pay off their mortgage, has the foresight and sense to pay into a pension fund, has gone without in order to build a good life after retirement etc. is not the same as a super-wealthy banker or footballer who could easily afford to give up an extra 1%.

But I think there are other, more obvious ways to claw back revenue into the pot. For example, bus passes and free prescriptions/dentistry when someone is 60. Last time I looked, retirement age is 66, not 60. Get rid of free prescriptions for those with Type 2 diabetes which is largely self-inflicted (would save the NHS hundreds of £millions. Reduction in foreign aid for those countries who are financially self-sufficient.

Making the country tax-attractive for large businesses and entrepreneurs will encourage them to increase their presence in the UK, create jobs and the good knock-on effects that has on the economy.

There are plenty of jobs around for those people who want them so I really don't understand why the hand-outs are going on for so long.

I work in tax. All these ideas about wealth tax have been discussed for many years and if they actually raised tax revenue would have been implemented by now. There are too many difficulties in how to value wealth, how to account for offshore assets, how to value pension pots, shares etc. The whole thing would become a massive risk for being manipulated. Evidence shows that a tax on consumption is the most effective way of a gvt raising revenue.

All those people saying look at corporations need to remember that corporation tax is a relatively small source of tax revenue overall. what is more important is the number of people these companies employ and the PAYE/ NIC contributions they make.

@Wannakisstheteacher

The boomers need to start contributing. My children missed 5 months of school - their school did sweet FA. They missed all their clubs, friends, everything. All to protect people like my PILS, who sat at home with FILs pension which is more per annum than his sons pre tax Army salary.

I've reached my limit. I'm not paying more in tax when I didn't feel these measures were in anyway proportional.

Not everyone boomer sat at home on their nice pensions. Just like not every 30 something sat at home on their 80% furlong payment and spent the summer doing up their garden and doing DIY.

I fall into the boomer bracket and had to take 3 months unpaid careers leave. I got a big fat 0 from anyone government included and had to depleat my savings

And whilst it is sad your children have lost out on 5 months of schooling and friendships I can also point you to several pensioners I know who have spent months locked into their own home seeing And speaking to no one apart from the food delivery driver and the odd phone call.

@Wannakisstheteacher

The boomers need to start contributing. My children missed 5 months of school - their school did sweet FA. They missed all their clubs, friends, everything. All to protect people like my PILS, who sat at home with FILs pension which is more per annum than his sons pre tax Army salary.

I've reached my limit. I'm not paying more in tax when I didn't feel these measures were in anyway proportional.

This is such utter shite. I am a boomer with a 12 year old and a mortgage. These nasty divisive generational hatred posts help no-one.

Cayrolbaaaskin -yeah bet you were one of the ones who voted for and thrived under Thatch.

Like a PP I had 3 months with zero income and had to use savings and cash in my pension. I’ve had to close my small business and get a job

@Proudboomer

Just like not every 30 something sat at home on their 80% furlong payment and spent the summer doing up their garden and doing DIY.

Why would your brain even go there? Shows a creepy jealousy that those who work weren't working (most were).

How about increasing VAT based not only on the type of item, but the value of it? (bit like stamp duty)

So cars:

• low VAT rate on any cars being pushed for environmental reasons (low engine, electric - whatever)
• standard VAT on cars to £30K
• high rate VAT on cars over £30K (on the full cost or just the over £30K part

No-one needs to spend £30K+ on a car - so you’re only taxing those who can afford it

Do the standard / high rate across a number of categories - cars is just one example.

All those people saying look at corporations need to remember that corporation tax is a relatively small source of tax revenue overall. what is more important is the number of people these companies employ and the PAYE/ NIC contributions they make.
That’s a fair point, but it surely can’t make sense that my local garage pays more corporation tax than Amazon?

@hemhem

I work in tax. All these ideas about wealth tax have been discussed for many years and if they actually raised tax revenue would have been implemented by now. There are too many difficulties in how to value wealth, how to account for offshore assets, how to value pension pots, shares etc. The whole thing would become a massive risk for being manipulated. Evidence shows that a tax on consumption is the most effective way of a gvt raising revenue.

All those people saying look at corporations need to remember that corporation tax is a relatively small source of tax revenue overall. what is more important is the number of people these companies employ and the PAYE/ NIC contributions they make.

Hem this is interesting. What is your view on what to do

Put high import tariffs for anything from China.

Claim tax from big corporations.

Tax everyone not just the rich. It is only fair for all of us to feel the pinch.

Tax cigarettes and alcohol and other bad stuff.

Cut international aid. We give millions away and we need it ourselves at the moment. You can always reinstate it when we are back on an even keel.

Ask people to donate. So many people say that they are willing to help but when it comes to it don't want to be taxed. Give them a badge or something that they can display on social media to sara "look how great I am" but only if they donate.

@Cocomarine

How about increasing VAT based not only on the type of item, but the value of it? (bit like stamp duty)

So cars:

• low VAT rate on any cars being pushed for environmental reasons (low engine, electric - whatever)
• standard VAT on cars to £30K
• high rate VAT on cars over £30K (on the full cost or just the over £30K part

No-one needs to spend £30K+ on a car - so you’re only taxing those who can afford it

Do the standard / high rate across a number of categories - cars is just one example.

I like this and can see it working. But it would affect the wealthy and elite more so I can’t see any government implementing something that would impact their donors, their cronies and themselves. Far better for them personally to divert and use the divide and conquer approach. They like to have us plebs squabbling and whining about our neighbours, colleagues or different generations instead of tackling the very real issues faced by so many of us.

100% agree, we should be taxing wealth not income.

The top 10% of wealthy households own 45% of all wealth. The bottom HALF only own 8%. There is a huge intergenerational inequality with home ownership rates ridiculously low for under 40s.

There’s a house round the corner from us which was last bought in 1995 for £250k, it’s now on the market for £2.7m. All of that income is unearned and untaxed. If that was a pension it would be above the lifetime limit and they would be paying tax on it.

If it was up to me there would be an annual 0.5% tax on all first homes and 2% on all second/third homes, empty homes or non dom owners. That would encourage people to move out of huge family homes once kids have flown the nest, ensuring a more efficient use of the housing stock. We should also remove stamp duty to remove costs associated with downsizing.

Wealth taxes are difficult to administer.

Would make more sense to tax capital gains as income.

[quote Howlooseisyourgoose]@Proudboomer

Just like not every 30 something sat at home on their 80% furlong payment and spent the summer doing up their garden and doing DIY.

Why would your brain even go there? Shows a creepy jealousy that those who work weren't working (most were).[/quote]
Jealousy? Maybe an element of as I had to take 3 months unpaid leave to care for a vulnerable person who had to self isolate within my home and got nothing and had to cope with my £67.25 careers allowance.
Do you work a 35 hours or more a week for £67.25?

Those that are in the top 1% would easily be able to hide their assets/shift them overseas or fiddle the numbers so they can offset them again debt. Just look at what Trump is doing with his accounts.

The people this would hit would be the middle classes and the elderly who are asset rich but income poor.

It may help the housing situation as elderly people are forced to downsize but there would also be less tax revenue as house prices fall.

It's ridiculous that you can now effectively be on pension benefits for 30 or 40 years and contribute very little, especially when much of the wealth in this generation is held by the current pensioner generation

Even older woman, who got their pensions at 60, would have to live till 90 to get their pension for 30 years or more. Not many of them will do that, and few will get 40 years of pension income.

I would have to get to 106 to get 40 years of pension!

By the time I get my pension, I will have been working and paying tax/NI for 49 years.

As most people's wealth is tied up in their home, it is inevitable that the bulk of wealth will be concentrated in the hands of those who are older and have paid off their mortgages. I think the home someone lives in should be disregarded for wealth purposes.

I'd prefer to close the loopholes that allow companies like Amazon, Arcadia etc to avoid paying UK tax on profits made in the UK, tbh.

the underlying problem is that people with power and money use their power and money to protect and conserve their power and money

The people this would hit would be the middle classes and the elderly who are asset rich but income poor

That's me! A 1% wealth tax on my house would be half a year's income for me.

Or to put it another way positive feedback loops mean that the rich get richer and the poor get poorer

@SomewhereEast

This will go down like a lead balloon with some people here, but I think the burden should rest more with the affluent section of the demography we're actually protecting from Covid, especially as that demography has already lucked out in many ways (final salary pensions, houses which have multiplied many times in value since they bought them). I'm glad Rishi Sunak is being really blunt about the need to pay for this, rather than just borrowing & borrowing (which is effectively dumping the burden on the young). Of course the problem is that middle class over-50s are the Tories' core demography, so I'll bet they'll screw the young instead.

Agreed. It has been stressful for well-off pensioners like my parents and PIL who have had to shield and have seen their hobbies and social lives take a dramatic change that they didn't plan for, but really we should not put all the burden on young people. Many of them have lost their jobs and will face hardship in the years to come due to problems with the economy (even if they keep their jobs). My parents and PIL have their pensions. They've just sat tight.

It's ridiculous that you can now effectively be on pension benefits for 30 or 40 years and contribute very little
What a load of shit.
Pensions are taxable by the way.

@TheEmojiFormerlyKnownAsPrince

‘Middle class over 50’s are Tories core voters’🤔

Hmmmmm I’m one. We lived through mass youth unemployment of the Thatcher years and the never ending bleakness of her and her awful polices.

I’m 57, probably defined as middle class. I’m to the left of Corbyn as are my colleagues and friends. I don’t really know anyone of my age group who voted Tory. We hated them with a passion. We were part of the Red Wedge, Rock against Racism etc. 2 of my friends were in court for refusing to pay the poll tax.... I voted remain.

Please don’t tar us all with the same brush.

But I’m we’re northern and work in the public sector so what do we know?😁

I'm 65, southern and work in the 3rd sector, but apart from those 3 points, I could have written that.

This ageism is so infuriating. The only Tories I know are my SIL and her husband, and they're only 50, so not even sure they count as boomers.

They're millionaire tax dodging scum, though, so they're never going to vote any other way.

It might be worth noting that the UK government gave out £137 billion in loans to banks and printed £750 billion in so-called quantitative easing to bail out bankers after the 2008 crash, £887 billion, or around £1.2 trillion in today's money. The price for that was Austerity which mainly hit the poorer.
So far the government has spent 'only' £210 billion. I for one would accept a mini-austerity that was 1/6 smaller than the one we've endured for 11 years, if it was better targeted at the wealthier. By investing in health, teaching and social care the total income to the exchequer would rise due to extra taxes paid on new and better paid jobs in those sectors. Who knows we could even come out of it with a far better outlook for the young, ill and frail?

@DynamoKev

It's ridiculous that you can now effectively be on pension benefits for 30 or 40 years and contribute very little What a load of shit. Pensions are taxable by the way.

And even the poorest pay VAT and other taxes on a lot of their spending.