To not want to be called "thick"

[WickedEmoji]

I am quite annoyed. DS's who are teens at the stage where they are always right and know everything just called me thick because I didnt know some obscure grammar that is now taught to year 6.

I am of the generation that was never formally taught grammar at school. I acheived all A and B grades, went to uni, had a career and achieved managerial status. All without knowing what a subjunctive clause, adjective noun phrase or whatever they are calling them, are.

Children use grammar, such as the use of I, me, you, we, with out knowing the technical terms of subject and object case or first person or second person perspectives.

A lot of the angst about teaching grammar is about the notion that if a child learns the technical terms it will improve their language use. It doesn't, as a general rule. (And on rules, there are things like bever start a sentence with never, I before e, which always have "exceptions") Generally language comes from immersion.

There are writing techniques that need to be taught, absolutely, but writing is more "artificial" than speech as you do not have the tone and body language context to draw on.

Language is not a recipe and its usage changes. The ability to communicate is more important than being able to name the technical term of the sentence type you just wrote.

So AIBU to be annoyed that I am considered "thick" because I do not know the technical terms?

(And yes, I have probably made grammatical errors in this post, and will have pedants pick them up, but I feel I have been fairly clear -as is the point if communication- so engaging in my grammar mistakes rather than the discussion says more about them than me)

Just remind them you have all those cute naked pics of them when they were tots and how "unfortunate" it would be if someone accidentally posted them online (or something similar). Find their kryptonite and use it Lex. Bwahahaha.....

I don't know why it's not taught to be honest because it's taught in languages at school. We were taught reflexive verbs but not a reflexive definition. You kind of had to muddle through yourself and it's a really stunted way of learning. Latin was an absolute bugger. Id never heard of most of the terms what's an ablative verb? Can't remember the rest as I'm too old but it was like double Dutch

@WickedEmoji

I am quite annoyed. DS's who are teens at the stage where they are always right and know everything just called me thick because I didnt know some obscure grammar that is now taught to year 6.

I am of the generation that was never formally taught grammar at school. I acheived all A and B grades, went to uni, had a career and achieved managerial status. All without knowing what a subjunctive clause, adjective noun phrase or whatever they are calling them, are.

Children use grammar, such as the use of I, me, you, we, with out knowing the technical terms of subject and object case or first person or second person perspectives.

A lot of the angst about teaching grammar is about the notion that if a child learns the technical terms it will improve their language use. It doesn't, as a general rule. (And on rules, there are things like bever start a sentence with never, I before e, which always have "exceptions") Generally language comes from immersion.

There are writing techniques that need to be taught, absolutely, but writing is more "artificial" than speech as you do not have the tone and body language context to draw on.

Language is not a recipe and its usage changes. The ability to communicate is more important than being able to name the technical term of the sentence type you just wrote.

So AIBU to be annoyed that I am considered "thick" because I do not know the technical terms?

(And yes, I have probably made grammatical errors in this post, and will have pedants pick them up, but I feel I have been fairly clear -as is the point if communication- so engaging in my grammar mistakes rather than the discussion says more about them than me)

I helped my nine year old grandson with his English homework and can completely understand what you are talking about.

Never mind they call you thick. Worry about when they start calling you a 'weirdo'

These days i get that in first and my children smile at me because they know they used to say it and they also know it made me feel bad. They said it when there was nothing else they could fire at me.

So the thicko is the person who houses and feeds and does all the caring is she ? Hmmm

I was taught all that at school, we all were and I don't remember much of it now.

wow, you are NOT clever, are you

If I said that to my mom (not that I would because I am not a dickhead) I would be swiftly moved to the shed. Not exaggerating.

Maybe if your post wasn't so full of pointless waffle we wouldn't have made that mistake.

But I'm out, you can deal with rude, obnoxious teenagers you've raised

What the fuck @MJMG2015?! Rude and obnoxious seem to be your strong point, what a strangely angry post to a stranger!

OP - I would go the guilt road (not in a manipulative way but because they genuinely have been horrible) and message them saying it was nasty to speak to you that way, they've really upset you and you won't tolerate it so you expect an apology. Hopefully it might get through to them if your message is calm but makes it clear they have really upset you.

@mbosnz

'You don't get to speak to me that way', tends to work wonders. Then walk away, and make sure dinner is something they'd really rather not eat, and that you watch Mamma Mia on loop on TV that night. . .

Doesnt this just instantly get "why?" As a response?

It's what we said as kids, it was funny watching adults fail to have a reason

I’m 41 and we were also not taught that in school. Nouns, verbs, adjectives, adverbs, clauses, punctuation, yes. Tenses and cases we learned as part of MFL, but not formally as part of English.

I did some EFL teaching in my late teens, and quickly had to look up what gerunds and past participles were in English!

Late 40’s , attended ordinary comprehensive .
Odd lesson on grammar eg. What is a verb ? noun etc nothing more.
It was a struggle when I started to teach English as a foreign language at first and also when I went on to learn languages and had to keep looking up grammatical terms.

Agree with others, kid is in the wrong so don’t take it seriously - nothing to do with intelligence- You can’t know about every subject there is if you haven’t studied it.

I'd have responded with something like:

"Don't be so smug! I taught you to wipe your arse and use a spoon! Show some respect!"

And I'd have expected an immediate and unreserved apology or else they'd have been sanctioned in some way.

Why do they think they remotely have the right to speak to you like this!?

Stamp on it now and hard!

Dh's response was ridiculously weak and unsupportive too!

My exh or my dad would have more likely said something like

"Who the hell do you think you're talking to?! Apologise now!"

You both need to PARENT

As a longer "argument" I wouldn't get into the nitty gritty as it's not relevant but point out to them NOBODY knows everything not even them! That true intelligence is understanding and appreciating that and focusing on learning as much as possible yourself, rather than focusing on others knowledge gaps. Pretty sure there's a shitload of stuff you and dh know that they are clueless on!

Those who come down on them like a ton of bricks as suggested by many on here are just going to end up with adult children who don't want to spend time with them. my adult dd is away studying, had a 3 hour conversation with her earlier which included her saying she misses me heaps (as I do her) and that she loves our long chats

Nothing wrong with appropriate discipline when children are being rude and insulting!

On the grammar side, I have an English degree, I was taught grammar, but I also studied alongside younger students who were taught more detailed grammar...yet couldn't spell fairly basic words or construct a decent paragraph at first! It's only one part of a language education.

When it comes to grammar or anything really i find Google is my friend :)

@mbosnz

I think it's more important that any generation is taught manners, rather than grammar.

They are not mutually exclusive. Surely one can have good manners and learn grammar?

However the op's sons were just being cheeky to their mother and, as she said, 'know it all'. It's not unusual for school kids to feign arrogance at times; it's a phase that doesn't usually last.

Wickedemoji, you are far from 'thick' and your children know that very well.

I said earlier I have forgotten a lot of the theory of grammar that I was taught at school and would need reminding of some of the meanings. I did, however, learn it reasonably well as did most of my generation. We started at primary school.

My son who is 41 next month also learned grammar and still does remember; I know that because he comes out with it occasionally if we are discussing an article or something similar. It was just normal to know these things and I'm really surprised it has only been taught patchily over the years.

The important thing is to be able to write grammatically even if the theory is hazy it is still there in the background for most of us.

@willloman

Yeah, hold onto that response when they next want some money/a lift/ clothes/dinner etc. - tell them their request is 'invalid' and that they've been very 'thick' in dishing out the insults. Also explain how they've hurt your feelings in being so disrespectful. Be calm when telling them. It's not the particulars, they're being smartarse with you. Curb it pronto or it will get worse.

Mid-forties here - similar to you, never taught the more complex grammatical names, just the basic verbs, nouns etc. I was a total book worm and I certainly got a "feel" for how to write by the amount I'd read.

However, I then went on to do A-level in German and it was different. At GCSE you're mainly learning stock phrases but when you move on to A-level you need to understand the structure of the language. What made it difficult was that I didn't know what the equivalent was in English so I couldn't understand what was being explained. I had to go back and learn more about grammar in my native English before I was able to further my German language skills.

So I think from a technical perspective you're right in that the best way to get an instinctive grasp of a language is to immerse yourself in it. However, it's still useful to understand the technical structure as you might need it as a platform to learn another language in more depth.

As for the parenting, you've had plenty of good advice here. Teens always think they know best but that's no reason to let them get away with being shitbags.

Yeah they’re being rude, I’d have probably just rolled my eyes and said “well that makes two of us because that’s tonight’s Xbox/PS4/other teenage activity gone. If you’re so clever you can teach me about these terms”.

YANBU OP. I'm hyperlexic & managed to learn grammar, spelling & a massive vocabulary essentially by exposure to it, but that makes me fortunate & not necessarily any more intelligent than anyone else, & I still don't know the names of a lot of the terms for things because they aren't important. I find it very strange that children are now formally taught lots of grammar rules. What is a fronted adverbial, anyway? Can I use it correctly? My DH, who is a TA, & therefore knows the names for these things, seems to think I manage just fine without needing to know the labels.

Hahaha.

They know approximately one fifth of fuck all. They're teenagers.

Just smile and nod.

Clare blue - 'your children' not 'you're children'

Teenagers can be horrible at times but that doesn’t mean it’s ok or you should just accept it. No way would I ever take being called thick by a kid especially my own bloody kid. As for being told your argument/point of view is “invalid”.... they sound insufferable and I’d give it them with both barrels. Rude, ignorant fuckers.

If I'd have called my mum thick, I would have woken up in the middle of next week, at any age.

The problem isn't whether or not you are thick (clearly you aren't). The problem is that your children thought it acceptable to speak to you in that way.

For those claiming that it's part of being a teenager and coming down like a ton of bricks will mean they won't want to see you , honestly ? That's incredibly weak. I would argue part of my role is to teach my DC how to behave appropriately and how to see everyone else as the same level and that belittling comments make them seem ridiculous.

The way certain roles , behaviour and particularly women are seen in this country is ridiculous. In the family on three sides , I am by far the most educated and professionally successful. However because I am currently at home (temporarily after covid job loss) and I fulfil the somewhat traditional behaviours of cooking and cleaning I've heard the odd comment from my DC.

I do come down on it hard. They know I wouldn't stand for anyone being called thick and it's not appropriate for them to comment on anyone's intelligence. Partly because it's very hard to define intelligence. I have a high IQ and lots of lovely letters after my name. However compared to my exdh who doesnt have a single GCSE or DP who had to drop out of school to support his family and got all of his qualifications later , I suck at some really practical stuff like directions and in general getting lost....constantly.

We teach DC that intelligence can be being really good at minecraft , or building something like exdh. My biggest issue would be not dealing with your DH not thinking this is something that needs to be dealt with.

Don't argue the semantics (there is no point telling my DC that I am writing 2 books and waiting for a place on a second masters course they wouldn't understand and it muddies the waters ) argue why they think it is ok to say that about anyone ...ever.

The problem isn’t whether you’re thick or not OP, the problem is your child continued arguing with you about it after you voiced your displeasure and well, that he said it in the first place. For disrespecting you, I’d be cutting down allowance. It’s question of an opinion, he’s doesn’t value you.

You need to teach them a bit of humility OP. Go in hard and it might only take one time to sort it. Let them away with it and they'll become insufferable.

I have now also reached the stage where I am pretty useless in helping my year 9 DC with their work, genuinely have no recollection of ever learning it. However, I got good grades and went to uni so I must have known enough at the time. I think the curriculum has changed a huge amount and also the way it is taught so I think this would be the case with a lot of people.

However, if they ever thought it was acceptable to call me thick when I wasn't able to help that would not be acceptable so YANBU to expect some respect from your DC