“That’s what mums do...”

[iamruth]

Following a discussion with someone this morning venting my frustrations a little about recent disagreements with my husband about how I am always the default parent (not acceptable to me or as an example to my children) this person said to me “that’s just what mums do” and suggested I should “toughen up a little bit and not get so jittery” when my husband and I disagree. Normally this person is someone who’s opinion I would respect but these phrases have really pissed me off. Surely it’s actually what PARENTS do and I think the toughen up statement was hard to swallow given some of the difficult childhood experiences I have endured (like many others I am well aware). I have no desire to toughen up and accept that the vast majority of parenting responsibilities should always fall to me to carry out or at least organise - AIBU?

@flooflah I absolutely agree about choosing your battles, it isn’t something I would always do by any stretch but it upset me enough to post here so clearly it was going to irritate me more than things would usually. With that in mind I decided it was proportionate.

Thanks for your concern. I actually feel much better having just called her back and explained, regardless of the fact she did see my point regarding the “wife work”. I’m not about forcing my opinions on her just, as you say, pointing out that it is damaging to women in my opinion a bad not an example I want for my children

I have no desire to toughen up and accept that the vast majority of parenting responsibilities should always fall to me

That does seem to be the way it works though (it shouldn't but it is) and as your children are already here there is not much you can do about it now. If your husband chooses not to step up more you're stuck.

I think you did right to ring and talk it through with her. It sounds like she meant well, it just came across wrong. She is of the older generation where it was more likely that the woman was the default parent. In fact it often still is the case for many. It doesn’t make it right though and you are absolutely right to challenge your husband if he isn’t pulling his weight. That said it is probably easier if you each take responsibility for different things rather than both try to know/do everything. I think that is often why one parent ends up taking on the mental load/organising if that makes sense.

I wouldn't automatically support my DSs if they were being lazy arses. Why would I? I don't agree with someone just because they're my relative, friend, colleague etc.

It's awful when you see women absolutely exhausted with the load of working/childcare/housework, while the man is having his hobbies, social life, resting on the sofa etc. Of course not all relationships are like that but I certainly wouldn't support any man that behaved similarly.

OP I agree it's important to focus on your DH's behaviour but the fact he gets people around him to shore up his sense of entitlement doesn't help matters. The fact that the counsellor disagreed with his assessment speaks volumes. And jittery sounds like code for having 'unacceptable' emotions to me, rather like women who are rightly angry are termed aggressive, hysterical, ball-breaking etc. It's okay to be angry, it's okay to upset, it's okay to be assertive. It doesn't suit your DH for you to assert your boundaries, so he's trying to shame you into stopping that, including by using his mother to get at you. Don't fall for it.

@BewilderedDoughnut

I have no desire to toughen up and accept that the vast majority of parenting responsibilities should always fall to me

That does seem to be the way it works though (it shouldn't but it is) and as your children are already here there is not much you can do about it now. If your husband chooses not to step up more you're stuck.

You’re really not.

I would far rather be an actual single parent than have the life of one while stuck in a resent-filled marriage with someone who just adds to my burdens.

Women like you just accepting ‘that’s the way it is’ and indicating that we have to suck that up as part of the deal of having children are a HUGE part of the problem.

And jittery sounds like code for having 'unacceptable' emotions to me, rather like women who are rightly angry are termed aggressive, hysterical, ball-breaking etc. It's okay to be angry, it's okay to upset, it's okay to be assertive. It doesn't suit your DH for you to assert your boundaries, so he's trying to shame you into stopping that, including by using his mother to get at you. Don't fall for it.

Yes! This! All of this!!

Absolutely agree, it’s sometimes as much of a battle to get women to stop telling other women “that’s the way it is, suck it up” as it is to make it clear to some men that it’s not acceptable. That’s how ingrained it is. Hence me not wanting my children to grow up with that belief and to actually Actively challenge it in others.

OP, I hope you don’t mind me asking this as it’s your post but do you think I’m right to feel fed up that the house and kids stuff always seems to fall on me although he works full time and I only do a few hours. I get fed up that I’m usually the default parent to sort the kids stuff out. It may be fair as it’s seen as “my job” but it makes me unhappy. Maybe rather than ask him to do more I should realise he won’t change and to put up and shut up and get on with it and realise that I’m a lot better off than most people or leave if I can’t be happy about the situation fair or not, can’t help how I feel? Or rather than putting everyone else first I should put myself first sometimes?

@PurplePrincess31 I think a lot depends on the age of your kids. If they’re at school and you have time at home alone in the day then yes, I believe that keeping the house ticking over is largely your job. That’s not to say your husband shouldn’t lift a finger but if you have leisure time in the day ie. occasional coffee dates, odd time to watch some tv, while he’s at work then if I were him I wouldn’t be impressed to be doing housework when I got home!

However, if you’re home with babies/toddlers then your job is looking after them and you do what you can around them. The rest of the household stuff gets split when you’re both home.

If it makes you unhappy to be more responsible for the kids/house stuff then I would say you need to work full time and demand that he steps up and does his fair share. While you’re not working full time and he is, then I think part of that arrangement is that more domestic stuff falls to you. You don’t get to work outside of the home for ‘just a few hours’ and still go halves on the work inside the home. But as I say, it all depends on context-kids ages in particular.

In most cases DH would be our "default parent". He works part-time, I work full-time. He works locally, I commute to London. He only works term time, I don't. He receives child benefit and he was the "main carer" on our adoption application and took the adoption leave.
In general, it's much harder for him to do this than it would be a woman in his position. He frequently is asked by employers why he has to go to collect our sick son from nursery instead of the mother, or why the mother isn't taking adoption leave etc etc etc. The assumption that women are the main carer hurts men as much as it hurts women.

I have 1 day when I’m at home and the kids are at school so yes I do all the housework, I wouldn’t expect him to do anywhere near half but sometimes it would be nice if I’ve been busy all day and then done the tea if he helped clean up rather than just get down and go back to his office. It’s more that I have to think about all the stuff to do with the kids but I suppose he would say he has to think about all his work stuff. Also the fact that he doesn’t do a lot with them unless it involves playing on the Xbox. I always try and do stuff with them on my day off in the holidays and take holiday from work to do stuff with them. I understand he needs downtime and to be able to chill but if on a weekend we haven’t got anything specific on and he’s not doing his bit around the house he spends most of it on his Xbox in his room, it would just be nice to do stuff as a family.

just, as you say, pointing out that it is damaging to women in my opinion a bad not an example I want for my children I didn't actually say that - I said it would be reasonable for you to ask her to please not say that only women do housework to your dc, which is slightly different.

Can I just ask, did she actually come on the call and tell you that housework was your job and to not challenge your dh about the fact that he wasn't doing enough? Or did she come on and ask if you were ok because there had been a bad argument?

Sorry, better explain why I asked. I have never heard anyone, ever, say that housework is just for women and that women should do all the housework and not challenge their dh about housework in real life. Also most women I know are very assertive etc and are not called jittery or over emotional etc.

I do know many men who are terrible around the house but none who try to defend their position, other than those who say, "Well, I don't mind it messy/dirty". And I also know plenty of women who do all the organising of their dc, school and activities, because they don't trust their husbands and no amount of rockets up backside would help them trust them. (Not all men I know are like this, obviously). But no one being called over emotional or jittery or being told they should do all the housework because it is "woman's work".

Who does this? Do I live in an ulterior universe?

Anyway - hopefully all is fine now, and your dh has agreed to a rota.

@SummerHouse

Reminds me of "that's why mums go to Iceland." Always gave me the rage.

I think the response (especially someone who is normally sympathetic) is one that someone might give when they are really struggling with something themselves. I know I felt this way (although don't think I said it, just thought it) when I had a very worrying 20 week scan and had to face the prospect of a chromosomal abnormality. I have really gone off topic now! But I guess it's just a consideration that you don't always know what shite other people have on their plates so always give the benefit of doubt.

Also you are right. It's not what mums do.

I used to rage about that ad when I was in my teens, it was bloody infuriating. .

For goodness sake we are not in middle ages. Both parents should have vested interest in their children's well being. Eh if child sick parents take it in turns to stay home with child. You need to be telling friend and DH both parents made child, both equally responsible. Your friend and did h sounds like jerks. I would be expecting and demanding more effort from my dh.

Good posts by @Pizzaistheanswer and @WellQualifiedToRepresentTheLBC but I feel you are wasting your time if you want your MIL to go against your DH in the name of feminism. She's not your friend she's helping her son.

Why is your DH sharing details of your argument with his mum, surely it's private?