“That’s what mums do...”

[iamruth]

Following a discussion with someone this morning venting my frustrations a little about recent disagreements with my husband about how I am always the default parent (not acceptable to me or as an example to my children) this person said to me “that’s just what mums do” and suggested I should “toughen up a little bit and not get so jittery” when my husband and I disagree. Normally this person is someone who’s opinion I would respect but these phrases have really pissed me off. Surely it’s actually what PARENTS do and I think the toughen up statement was hard to swallow given some of the difficult childhood experiences I have endured (like many others I am well aware). I have no desire to toughen up and accept that the vast majority of parenting responsibilities should always fall to me to carry out or at least organise - AIBU?

Right, but why are you more interested (or at least seem more interested!) in complaining about this random person with a (wrong!) opinion about parenting - instead of putting your energies into changing things at home?

Why do you care what this person thinks? Nobody is going to tell you on here that men shouldn’t be good parents! Sure, one parent might do more - because of skill sets or working hours - but nobody is going to tell you that you’re unreasonable to think a couple shouldn’t parent TOGETHER.

The reality in my first marriage - and still now - is that I do all the child stuff. It was me that set, taught and marked during homeschool - including work to take to dad’s. Dad didn’t even ask him what he was doing. That was wrong... but there’s no point in flogging a dead horse. I stopped arguing with him long ago - and divorced him instead. I can recommend that.

Of course, my son’s stepmother is now default parent in that relationship - because leopards don’t change their spots.

Stop wasting your breath allowing other people into your fights. Talking about it at work is just ridiculous. Tell them to keep their beak out!

@ComicePear, yes you are right, I hadn’t looked at it that way. Maybe I will suggest it later on, I might just go myself if he won’t, it’s always useful to be able to reflect on your own behaviours and reactions anyway I think.

@Cocomarine But that’s the point, I’m asking is this person’s opinion wrong or am I being unreasonable. It’s it “just what mum’s do”?

My work is irrelevant, I only said that to give the context story the conversation ie I didn’t initiate it, she did, so I don’t think it was a case of her being sick of me talking about it.

Incidentally I didn’t allow her into our fight, she didn’t get any of it from me.

Do you work full time Op? If you do, of course your husband should do an equal share. So often on MN, there are posts from women who don't work or have a part time job which leads to a stereotype of the wife taking responsibility for everything at home. If you work, your husband has to do his fair share. And, you might be able to out source the cleaning etc.

But you did allow her into it, because you gave her the time of day on your lunch break to talk about it. Honestly - she’s not a useful person here, if she thinks you should toughen up and do all the parenting. She is a useful person though if she’s saying you should toughen up and stand your ground in an argument about it! Because that would be right. But it sounds like your husband likes to peddle some shite about you being the over emotional, over reacting wee woman, yes? Fuck that shit.

I’m 100% with you that women should not be default parents.

It was part of my divorce. Not the actual reason - but it all added into why I couldn’t respect him, and therefore love him.

Lay this to rest - she’s wrong. Now use your mental energy to blast your lazy arse husband instead!

YANBU she sounds like a mum martyr. Maybe she feels uncomfortable about you questioning it. Personally l think it’s good you are and it’s not right

YANBU. On another thread yesterday i made this exact point - that even when women KNOW they're being taken advantage of/that their DHs are not stepping up and doing their share/that their lives are intrinsically more complicated than their partners', there are ALWAYS people in their extended friends and family who will tell them that it could be worse, or they should be grateful or that it's just the way it is.

And it is INFURIATING.

So I totally feel your pain.

My own mother, on the breakdown of my sister's marriage, was heard to say, "Well, she does travel an awful lot for work and isn't exactly cooking dinner and being there for him."

Reminds me of "that's why mums go to Iceland." Always gave me the rage.

I think the response (especially someone who is normally sympathetic) is one that someone might give when they are really struggling with something themselves. I know I felt this way (although don't think I said it, just thought it) when I had a very worrying 20 week scan and had to face the prospect of a chromosomal abnormality. I have really gone off topic now! But I guess it's just a consideration that you don't always know what shite other people have on their plates so always give the benefit of doubt.

Also you are right. It's not what mums do.

YANBU. Just because some people accept being the martyr doesn't mean ever else should suck it up.
Until society starts challenging the idea women should be grateful for their husbands to be fractionally more that useless, and women stop lamenting the 'woe is me, I couldn't possibly expect my man to do his fair share', couples who have more equitable set ups are always going to be fighting these attitudes.

@mrsmuddlepies I don’t quite work full time, I work 32 hours (to be able to accommodate my husbands job/shift work) We probably could outsource the cleaning but I’d have to organise that and remember to pay them etc etc etc haha!

@Cocomarine, actually yes you are right I did let her in to it, that is my mistake, she called because she said she was concerned and I did let myself get into a conversation about it. I hadn’t really ever considered this shite about me being over emotional but it’s kind of becoming clear now that that is clearly his go to way of getting out of appearing to be behaving ‘badly’.

I’m half debating ringing her and telling her that these things have upset me but maybe I should just try and forget it and a as you say continue to apply my metal energy to him instead. Frankly I’ve enough useful things to use it on it’s frustrating this is even a ‘thing’

@SummerHouse that is a fair point about having other things on her mind that I hadn’t considered. I hope everything was ok with your scan in the end.

women do tend to get on and do things though, let's be honest i doubt many men would want kids if they had to go through pregnancy and do the bulk of chid care /raising. there are so many men who leave their dc or find them a chore at home as we readso many times on here.

She called me in the middle of my working day to ask if I was ok because she’d clearly heard about this from my husband.

I'd have a massive issue with that - one I'd take up with both of them. Him running off telling tales and them for taking his take on things as gospel - and I'd be making those views known to them.

I'd also suggest next time -"“that’s just what mums do” stating attitudes that that are a huge part of the problem and thank goodness most people attitudes have evolved - though it does sound like they blind sided you this time.

I wouldn't ring them about it - no need to encourage them but I would be more prepared with them going forward. I would be asking your DH clamly what the hell he was playing at encouraging them to call you at work and basically shit stir between you.

My MIL said this to me too...but she was a mostly single mum to 4 kids. I don't agree personally and think men should pull their weight. I'm sure plenty do but many don't.

@iamruth that's really thoughtful of you to ask. I am even more on your side now. It was eight years ago and they found echogenic bowel. Which can be downs or any number of other things. Turned out to be nothing in my case.

I hope you get back in track with your friend. It doesn't excuse her response even if she does have stuff going on.

The thing I am hearing here is not so much "do work yourself which should be shared" more that you have been told by two people (or one person said it to the counsellor) that you were over emotional/react emotionally/get jittery - I think that that is what you need to focus on.

I’m half debating ringing her and telling her that these things have upset me you see, isn't this what they are talking about? If they deal with things in very straightforward pragmatic ways you may seem difficult to them. Even if you think that they are "wrong" or trying to cover up bad behaviour or "wrong" ideas. The person you spoke to was reacting to how you were saying it, how you were dealing with it maybe.

I don't mind people having a good bitch to me about having to do all the work, but if someone was being jittery I might find that hard work.

If you had said "I am fed up of doing all the housework I am going to do a feckin' rota" she may have said "jolly good idea"?

I don't know and it isn't possible to draw any conclusions from what you have said but it is something for you to reflect on and talk to your counsellor about, how you deal with things and how you deal with conflict.

If you can hire a cleaner I would. It's not a big deal to hire and pay someone.

@flooflah my reason for wanting call is to set the record straight and to be honest rather than to be emotional about anything. I think it is being upfront saying, I’m a upset by something you said, it’s not actually based on anything you’ve witnessed yourself only something you’ve heard from someone else and I resent you taking their word on that. The point is I’m not jittery, I just don’t accept that I should have to bear the whole load of that responsibility and because I don’t just blindly accept it I’m told to put up and shut up basically

@SummerHouse I’m glad everything was ok in the end,

Thank you, I’m sure I’m maybe being over sensitive but this person sees a lot of my children and I dislike the idea that everything being mummy’s job that daddy helps with might be normalised around them

Maybe your moaning for on her nerves.

I had a colleague who loved to tell me how horrible her OH was and how tough life was with her two children.

She always failed to appreciate that I had to do the same than her, working 5 days (she worked 3), with help of her husband (who in my view did do a lot) and help from her mum and MIL.

One day I snapped and said that I actually thought she had it easy. She wouldn't talk to me for weeks and was always shirt afterwards. I kicked myself for saying something and not riding above, but she'd just pushed one too many buttons.

Do not call them. It's way too dramatic. It's ok to let some things go. If they are normally supportive, then I would just move on.

The reason for your call is to tell her about your emotions, about how you feel, about what you think and put them straight?!

Isn't that the problem here?

You seem quite rigid in your thinking and argumentative and I think trying again to see other people's point of view and reflecting on it might help you.

I do think the issue here is interpersonal, not to do with who does the house work. I would be more worried about modelling poor ways of handling conflict for your dc than the impact of on them of you doing housework. Your feelings and your behaviour is your responsibility. If someone disagrees with you, you shouldn't harass them until they do agree with you if that is what you were planning to do with your friend

Things to help teach your dc good ways of thinking about housework would be to include your dc in housework and to explain clearly that housework is for boys and girls, men and women, equally.

The point is I’m not jittery

I think the point is she said she thought you seemed jittery to her.

@dontdisturbmenow maybe your problem wasn’t that her husband did a lot but that you didn’t make your husband do his fair share? Why is it not ok for women to be dissatisfied with men who “do more than some men/their husbands” if it’s not equal?

I barely said a word to her in terms of complaining, she called me. Not that it actually matters, the points is it isn’t what MUMS do it’s what PARENTS do

Hang on, your DH rang this person and had a mon/vent about you? Is she your MiL?

Whoever she is, that's not on! Was it in the "Ooh, I'm worried about iamruth, she isn't coping and she feel out with me about it." style?

If so, DH needs a rocket and to step up and put his actions where his lip service is, and to stop disloyally grumbling about you behind your back!