“That’s what mums do...”

[iamruth]

Following a discussion with someone this morning venting my frustrations a little about recent disagreements with my husband about how I am always the default parent (not acceptable to me or as an example to my children) this person said to me “that’s just what mums do” and suggested I should “toughen up a little bit and not get so jittery” when my husband and I disagree. Normally this person is someone who’s opinion I would respect but these phrases have really pissed me off. Surely it’s actually what PARENTS do and I think the toughen up statement was hard to swallow given some of the difficult childhood experiences I have endured (like many others I am well aware). I have no desire to toughen up and accept that the vast majority of parenting responsibilities should always fall to me to carry out or at least organise - AIBU?

Your husband rang your friend to tell her you weren't happy that he thinks you should be the default parent ?

@flooflah if I had said something and inadvertently upset them I would want to know, not for them to always just remember that time they said something that was upsetting and Based on outdated sexist crap. In my opinion the adult thing to do is to talk through any misunderstandings and generally you can both accept that you got the wrong end of the stick or that something you said can we across differently to how it was meant. I would always want to correct any misunderstanding. As it happens I spoke to her and that’s exactly what we did, she said she meant jittery in that she didn’t want me to feel stressed out by the argument and to know I had support and she could see why I might have thought so, I apologised for taking it the wrong way. She also agreed that her age and experience probably meant that she would never have challenged her (ex) husband on things which she knew to be unfair and that it is right we question whether things are equal for women.

Yes to be fair my MIL, not my friend as such but we have always had a good relationship and been friends in part because I lost my mum as a young child and overall I respect and value her opinion

To be fair it’s not that I’m not coping I just refuse to have to ‘cope’ if he’s not taking on his fair a share of responsibilities

YANBU

The point is I’m not jittery, I just don’t accept that I should have to bear the whole load of that responsibility and because I don’t just blindly accept it I’m told to put up and shut up basically
Some people have a real issue with women standing up for themselves and holding the men in their life to a basic standard of adulting.
You being annoyed at your DH not pulling his weight or feeling pushed into the default parent is always going to get some people's backs up because it challenges their little worldview where wifey does everything because their man is so busy/important/incompetent. If there's no gold star for doing everything and there's women actively saying men should do their fair share then some people find that quite a threatening worldview.

It's a bit like some people think a woman being assertive is being aggressive or confrontational. Because the socialisation says women should 'be nice' and fall over themselves to put everyone else first, not speak up etc, when a woman does some people's default response is to say 'are you ok Hun...you seem a bit emotional/jittery/on edge'. 🙄

It's so common for the mother to do all the kid admin. We fell into it really. I don't particularly mind although it would be nice if he could consult me a bit more on his parenting decisions before he carries them out (eg. Idiotic threats he will never follow through!!).

MIL have a lifetime of taking on their child's side - so I'd expect her views to back your DH much more than somone more impartial.

I've pushed back gently with mine - she stated DH should be changing nappies I said really my Dad did x number of years ago- which was true. She talks about DH babysitting his kids - I say how it's babysitting they're his. We both ignore jibe about him cooking meals when they come over.

I would ask him why his mother is ringing you at work complaining - and suggest perhaps you need to talk things through as a couple not bring others into your arguments - see what reponse you get.

YANBU.

I don’t really understand why people are bending over backwards to find scenarios in which you are. (Accepting a call in working hours etc).

You think he should do more, you need to negotiate that between you. Instead of which he has accused you to his mother, and the counsellor maybe - I’m not sure I followed that correctly, sorry, I’m half asleep - of being jittery and over emotional? This over emotional thing means he doesn’t have to actually take on more responsibility, because you are wrong for being overly emotional. Is that right.

Your MIL rang you up and told you that a) you needed to suck it up and b) you were jittery - possibly she meant prickly?

We can have different opinions on stuff but I’d be a bit miffed if someone took my husband’s word that I was being over emotional and waded in unasked.

I think you can point out to her nicely that doing all the parenting doesn’t really work for you - did she do it all?

I don’t know if you are being over emotional - I am accused of that and know that I can be. My husband is implacable and utterly unable to see things from my point of view and that can make me frustrated to the point of tears. I try to not get like that as it gives him a focus away from what I’m actually saying.

Sorry this is so long OP - you aren’t wrong or unreasonable. Don’t be made to feel you are

OP if that is right, what you say, and the poor woman wasn't just agreeing with you to stop you lecturing her, then fine. Good outcome for you and all womankind.

Sounds like your MiL wants to assist her son’s cause, either consciously or unconsciously.

She doesn’t want to accept or admit that her beloved son is not a good husband or father. Shrugging and intimating that all men are like him and that you’re somehow lacking for not picking up all the shit work because ‘that’s what mums do’ - well, that’s a lot easier and nicer for her than considering that perhaps she (and presumably his father) raised a less than perfect partner to you.

Why has she taken time out of her day to call you and interfere in this? What is her agenda? Could it be that she wants to smooth over (or shove down and bury) marital disharmony by persuading you that you have it no worse than other women?

She probably knows exactly what he’s like and doesn’t for one minute not believe you’re right. That doesn’t mean she doesn’t want you to suck it up though. Her loyalty will always be with her son and keeping up appearances.

Go back to counselling, alone if necessary. I think you’d find it useful.

Oh and can we all please stop talking about being too emotional as some kind of very female weakness? Emotions can be powerful and there is fuck all wrong with embracing them and feeling them. Don’t apologise for that even if it is in you. It’s part of your character. Don’t be persuaded by mysoginistic arseholes that it’s a flaw.

Just take no notice op.

Sadly many, many people still have deeply engrained, sexist, old fashioned views about the roles of men/women, mums/dads.

You can try to challenge it but many people just don't think that way.

The main thing though isn't what your mil thinks but how your Dh behaves.

You seem determined to be annoyed with your friend and I don't know why. Some mums do everything. Some of us don't. But I think we're all aware that the stereotypes definitely exist. Women need to choose what works best for them. If you're struggling then read Wife Work.

Your friend said you were jittery. That seems to have struck a nerve with you but it doesn't mean your DH is right about you falling to pieces all the time. On this thread you sound like you're struggling and frustrated. Some people could perceive that as being jittery. Whether it's being frustrated or being jittery, you need to recalibrate. This isn't for your friend to fix. Tearing apart the conversation with your friend, is just a distraction. Your focus should be on division of labour in your marriage and carving out some breathing space for yourself. You assumed that toughening up meant putting up with the status quo. It could have meant toughening up to have the difficult conversations and put boundaries in place.

There are too many women who feel they have to buy into the myth that men are just hilariously useless/just not good at those things/don't see the mess/can't work a washing machine/multitask/can't even change a nappy.

Otherwise, those women would be forced to look at their own situation and acknowledge that, actually, their own partner just didn't care enough about them to do their fair share of the child-rearing/domestic tasks or to worry about their partner's financial future (the impact on earning potential and pension, for example, caused by time away from a career). Men are not inherently incapable of any of these things (and it does no favours to either party to perpetuate these stereotypes).

That truth is (unsurprisingly) unpalatable to many. Would that be the case for your MIL, by any chance?

@iamruth

Yes to be fair my MIL, not my friend as such but we have always had a good relationship and been friends in part because I lost my mum as a young child and overall I respect and value her opinion

Sorry, you're saying your MIL said this to you? Obviously she would though? She isn't commenting on feminism or the rights and wrongs, she is doing another time-honoured womanly chore (boak!) of peacemaking within the family. She is trying to get you onside to smooth things over for her DS.

It's fine that you respect her etc., but never forget, as a woman you wear a shock collar called misogyny. Your MIL is using that shock collar on you, to get you to stop creating work/noise/hassle for her son.

That collar is how all the unseen work of our culture gets done with little fuss. (By women). It works, most of the time. I can tell your feelings are hurt - of course they are, the shock collar hurts! - but this might be a sign you need to remove MIL from the pedestal a bit and see that she is not always going to support you and build you up. Not if you're making it hard for her son.

Accepting that will help reduce the pain you may feel in future, although it's also likely to hurt your relationship with your MIL, of course. Misogyny is corrosive, unfortunately. It's very sad.

Hear hear @Pizzaistheanswer

Well said.

It’s really odd how quick so many people are to believe that the CEO/lawyer/tax accountant they’re married to is incapable of working out the washing machine. They genuinely don’t seem to think about how improbable that is.

I thought reading through your thread "I bet this person is the MIL" and yes, I was right. I am sure she is lovely and supportive, but it is also fairly likely that she is going to be biased in any discussion about her son. So, if I were you I would continue to view her as someone i could discuss issues with/vent if she has always been supportive with the exception of issues around your husband. And just expect her advice around him his going to be less useful than her advice/opinions generally are.

I had a psychiatrist say similar to me when my GP referred me for PND and exhaustion - at the time I was the main breadwinner working full time, then again late at night after DC were in bed and DH was working abroad in the week. Seemed to think it was normal for me to do everything so DH could come home and be "fun daddy" whilst I did all the wifework at the weekend...

Too many good answers and valid points on here to respond individually but overall I would agree with @GeorginaTheGiant and @Pizzaistheanswer

In response to a couple of others I just don’t see why we should blindly accept blatant sexism from our husbands or our mother in laws or anyone else, like racism and homophobia it should be challenged in my opinion.

@WellQualifiedToRepresentTheLBC I actually agree and so did she that she was trying to smooth things a over and keep the peace which whilst I don’t blame her or hold that against her I think I should challenge her opinion that “that’s just what mums do” because I think it’s outdated and not the example I personally want for my children

@Londonmummy66 - it’s blummin everywhere! I’m sick of women having to do (or at least organise and direct) everything so that men can have everything!

@yetanothernamitynamechange you are absolutely right, I think she caught me a bit off guard today as I hadn’t brought it up so I was a bit surprised!

@GeorginaTheGiant

Oh and can we all please stop talking about being too emotional as some kind of very female weakness? Emotions can be powerful and there is fuck all wrong with embracing them and feeling them. Don’t apologise for that even if it is in you. It’s part of your character. Don’t be persuaded by mysoginistic arseholes that it’s a flaw.

This, 100x this!

I'd be asking her if she ever felt any shame at raising such a man.

@londonmumm66 I hope you got a new psychiatrist! They sound crazy!!

OP I posted after reading your post to me, before reading updates, and so if it seemed a bit rude, I apologise. I see now that your MIL phoned you at work to ask you if you were ok and after you spoke to her for a bit said you were jittery/your dh said to her you were jittery and she wanted to know you had support. I am not sure whether you are saying she started the call by saying "you shouldn't raise housework with my son because you shouldn't challenge him and you should do all the housework because it is what mums do" (ie clearly wrong to right thinking people, though she is entitled to her opinions, though at the same time you would be reasonable to ask her to please not express those opinions in front of your dc) or whether she was concerned about the argument and about you being jittery, and if so why, did she think it was a very bad argument.

Whether or not you speak to people about them upsetting you every time is another question. I personally think it is best to choose your battles rather than argue all the time with people (this is a "people" thing not a "woman" vs "man" thing) but it is up to you.

I hope you are ok.