Realities of going from 2 to 3? Am I being materialistic?

[overweightcat]

Apologies for the long post but it's such a huge decision.
We will be sitting down with DP tonight to discuss the possibility.
He's all up for it and would happily start trying tomorrow, I'm also very tempted deep down but I'm a lot more concerned about finances and the practicalities of going from 2 to 3.

For him it trumps most things, he has always wanted 3 but we did initially settle on 2.
Our DCs are 6 and 3 one at school and one about to start nursery.

All the points below we will sit down and discuss tonight but I'd love some advice and insight from wise mumsnetters about the realities and practicalities of it, opinions on whether my views are a bit materialistic and maybe help me comply a list of things to discuss in case I've forgotten about anything.

My concerns:

• we are currently in a house that's too small for us, we are looking to upsize in our area but properties within our price range are few and far between hence we are still in here like sardines, DC 3 would mean an even bigger house. We are hoping to rent our current house out and are aiming to use it as a pension later on (we are self employed).

DP has initially said he would look to sell this house and use the equity to boost our budget and buy something bigger if we were to have another, then rethink our pension (we do potentially have a backup but it's not 100% ATM) He also said we might end up buying something small to extend but that would mean living in it as it is and then effectively living on a building site with 3 DCs and a dog which is my idea of a nightmare. We kind of did that with our current DCs and I've grown up moving a lot and living amongst renovations and for once I would just like to be finished and ready for a new arrival without having to worry about it, heck maybe even having a nursery ready. Is this self indulgent of me? We are a bit strapped for time as it is because we wouldn't want a much bigger age gap however I'm not prepared to start trying until we have secured a bigger house as I don't want to be in limbo with it.

• From a financial aspect I want to be able to afford things comfortably and be able to save and do things as a family without having to worry about it too much, and call me selfish/greedy but that includes materialistic things like holidays, I would value our financial security and comfort more than having a potential 3rd child which could put a strain on our finances and impact our current DCs.

Again this is something we will discuss tonight but I'd love to be able to have some insight to consider in terms of the expense of an extra child in all aspects of daily life and things like holidays and so on. We are not currently rolling in it and are conscious about finances however that might change but I'd like to be able to work out how doable it is.

Apart from the above which are the main points for me I also want to discuss / get advice on:

• the shift of dynamic from 2 to 3
• going back to sleepless nights and the baby stage
• cars - I'm guessing we would need something big to fit 3 car seats?
• practicalities like arranging a babysitter for 3 vs 2 - PILS can just about manage with 2 ATM if need be (it's not like we go off on jollies or need it much) but I'm conscious of the fact that it might be more difficult with 3 if it came down to it - any insight/advice?
• I love being a mum and love my DCs more than anything, I love having them climb into bed with us in the mornings for cuddles and seeing them grow and their characters develop, we have a lovely balance with them at the moment and I'm a bit in between worrying about a 3rd throwing a spanner in the works and making it a struggle or maybe another DC would end up just slotting in perfectly and making it even better - again any insight into this aspect would be great.

I would really appreciate any feedback / advice on the above points and also any potential things I forgot about.

It doesn’t sound to me like a third would be the right choice for your family- I think you both have to want it and although your DH does, it doesn’t seem you do- even from a standpoint of ‘I really want a third but am worried about affording it’- it sounds like even if you could afford it easily you might not be that keen for other reasons? (Which is totally fair enough!). I always wanted three (and am expecting our third now), even if we’d have been going to struggle financially I would have really struggled to let go of the idea of a third (though it would have been the sensible thing to do if we couldn’t have afforded it). If money was no object, would you go for a third? If yes- I’m not saying you should go for it, but I’d be looking closely at finances and considering it. If you still would be ambivalent about it even then- I wouldn’t do it.

Sorry I read your update from today after posting! If in your heart you really want one, and your DP does too, and think it would be tight but manageable- I think I would!

Do YOU want this though? almost all the risks would be on you, personally, and the DC.

Would prioritise marriage asap - whatever you decide about DC3 - given your high current, personal risks. Sad if specific family members can’t attend, or indeed if no party is possible, but there are strong reasons to marry quickly.

your concerns are valid, and not at all to do with ‘insecurities’ or ‘worries’!

Is your DP doing anything to mitigate your present risks: paying into your personal savings or pension, for example? Facilitating you to earn more?

I massively underestimated the cost of 3.

Now mine are 5,7,9 and it’s the smaller but ongoing costs that impact us. Three lots of school stuff, 3 birthday parties, 3 sets of after school activities, 3 sets of school trip money.

It seems never ending and my goodness the food costs.

I’m seriously concerned about our ability to afford 3 teenagers. I’m going to need to up my earning power somehow and pretty quickly.

Obviously I love my 3 kids but the cost of 3 is huge.

We had a surprise 3rd baby. Bigger car, bigger house, not enough hands to hold them all when out and they eat constantly.
But they’re a great little team, look after each other, always have the others backs. It’s amazing to watch them all together.
The dynamic has certainly changed and life is busy, so busy. But I wouldn’t change it.

Having a third put strain on us financially. We needed a bigger car as we could not fit three car seats across the back.
Cost of clothes is expensive too, especially when they are young and outgrow everything.
Days out/ holidays are aimed at families of 4, so that becomes more expensive too.
Also childcare, for two was manageable for three is expensive, therefore it didn't become financially viable for me to work until the youngest was in full time nursery.

2-3 is far easier than 1-2 because you've already made the jump once so know what you can expect. We didn't find a financial impact then, we have only found it now we have 5 and have bought a bigger house and car. Our newest addition is only 12 weeks old, but she has slotted in perfectly and is by far my easiest baby!

I'm interested in why your DP wants a third child? What will it add to your family that you don't already have?

I think with both the economy and the environment the way it is, smaller families are better. Your time, energy, space and money aren't spread so thin, either at this young stage, or when it's time to support them through university or college.

One of my sisters and one of my friends ended up with third happy accidents. Friend ended up with three lots of childcare, which meant negative wages for five years. One child ended up competing up to regional level in a sport which was a lot of driving. They took turns at the weekend as the other dc had stuff to do so they rarely all went along together.

Plus teens are expensive they seem to eat double the amount of food, DS was in adult clothes at 12. He had football and cadet subs, DD had piano lessons and brownies. There was a summer when DS had all new shoes which ended up fitting him for approx four weeks. It meant new school shoes, trainers, football boots and Astro turf football boots twice in five weeks. It was just a ridiculously quick growth spurt.

It’s all anecdotal, chances of competing in a regional sport, crazy growth spurts, but they happen.

I don't think this is a popular opinion but I think having 3 is environmentally selfish. Actually think about what kind of world a child born today will be living in when they are elderly. Think about all if the resources they will use.

I only have 2, but I don't really buy into the environmental thing. The birth rate in Scotland where I live is dropping steadily. We need to keep having babies! Who is going to work to fund your pension, or grow up to become your carer or doctor or farmer?

By all means don't have (more) children yourself if you don't want to, based on any reasoning you like including environmental. But I don't think it's irresponsible or environmentally selfish for others to have more.

The global population is expanding at a rate that needs to be considered and controlled but I'm not sure that's necessarily on us (assuming OP is in the UK).

@LadyIronDragon

I only have 2, but I don't really buy into the environmental thing. The birth rate in Scotland where I live is dropping steadily. We need to keep having babies! Who is going to work to fund your pension, or grow up to become your carer or doctor or farmer?

By all means don't have (more) children yourself if you don't want to, based on any reasoning you like including environmental. But I don't think it's irresponsible or environmentally selfish for others to have more.

The global population is expanding at a rate that needs to be considered and controlled but I'm not sure that's necessarily on us (assuming OP is in the UK).

This is a fundamental misunderstanding of the economics. Only 2/5 of people in the UK are net contributors, financially. 60% of the population take out more than they put in (more on this here and yes, it's the DM but it's quite a good explanation).

Now, of course, it's more complicated than that. For a start, many people make huge contributions to society, they just don't get paid much (or anything) for it. But the basic point is that it not true that we need to keep having babies to support the older population. Many of those babies will themselves end up receiving more support through their lives than they contribute - through benefits, child support, costs to the NHS etc etc. What we really need is a smaller population with higher average economic productivity.

I would find it very difficult to WoH FT, or indeed PT, with 3DC. I don’t know many mothers with 3 DC who work FT, and the PT ones I know had family support with childcare during the early and primary years.

A number of mums I know with 3 DC are SAHMs, which is fine with a good relationship, no adverse events etc, but entails somebig risks.

Fathers often get to be a parent AND work FT (being facilitated by their partner doing much more parenting/domestic work and ‘mental load’), retain their personal career and earning capacity. For mothers, the ‘motherhood penalty’ happens, and I suspect it is greater for every DC.

We have two DC, stopped at two primarily for fertility reasons. I’m glad, after some rough years in PT work, to have retained at least SOME of my earning capacity, by going back to FT. Think would’ve been even harder with 3.

I have 3, I absolutely love it but yes the first few years have been mess, chaos and less of the aspirational holidays/purchases. Babysitting is as per 2, sleep yes hard but you’ve done it twice before you know the drill, you seem in a good and sensible financial position so it’s really down to how much you want a third baby.

If you really want to have that baby, in your current position you’d cope fine with this financially, don’t factor things like car seats into this decision, that’s a detail you can sort out later!
If you’re not sure then there will be plenty of reasons not to., many of which have already been outlined.

That's interesting MissLucy thanks. I'm not sure it changes the worries I have over the different sections of the population or my views on birth rates really, but it's interesting to take on board. I am quite worried about future ageing populations and how they will be funded and cared for.

Someone once told me that you don't regret the children you have, only the ones you don't

That's a load of bollocks. if you read Mumsnet, there are plenty of threads where women have said that they regret having children at all, or having more. It doesn't sound like there's a very good reason for having a third, and plenty of good reasons to focus on the two you've got.

We stopped at two for financial reasons but also because our two have always seemed to need all the attention we have to give. Having said that, my DH was dead against a third. If he hadn't been, I would have had three. However I am not the most practical person around. Realistically, the kids we have, on our fairly average combined salary, seem already very expensive. In our case swimming club, guides, beavers, (previously tap and modern - backbreakingly expensive), drama, football, music lessons are all a monthly expense. I also want them to be able to experience the school ski trips and french exchanges later on. We already don't go on expensive holidays so we couldn't cut back much there.

My sister has three. She had BIL work full time (always have) and they have one car and holiday in a family-owned house. They don't stay in hotels if they can avoid as they need three rooms. Eldest is now at Uni. Most of my sister's salary at one point seemed to go to a ballet school. They also eat LOADS! On balance, DH felt we either needed more money and/or a live in nanny to have another. Will I regret it? I already do, being the one who wanted three, but it just always seemed right for us as a family not to.

I'm stopping at two. Just pushed out my second DC and am never, ever going through that again!

Pregnancy and childbirth are no joke.

Congratulations, fourplasticrings! Hope you have a speedy recovery and that DC2 is a good sleeper!