Realities of going from 2 to 3? Am I being materialistic?

[overweightcat]

Apologies for the long post but it's such a huge decision.
We will be sitting down with DP tonight to discuss the possibility.
He's all up for it and would happily start trying tomorrow, I'm also very tempted deep down but I'm a lot more concerned about finances and the practicalities of going from 2 to 3.

For him it trumps most things, he has always wanted 3 but we did initially settle on 2.
Our DCs are 6 and 3 one at school and one about to start nursery.

All the points below we will sit down and discuss tonight but I'd love some advice and insight from wise mumsnetters about the realities and practicalities of it, opinions on whether my views are a bit materialistic and maybe help me comply a list of things to discuss in case I've forgotten about anything.

My concerns:

• we are currently in a house that's too small for us, we are looking to upsize in our area but properties within our price range are few and far between hence we are still in here like sardines, DC 3 would mean an even bigger house. We are hoping to rent our current house out and are aiming to use it as a pension later on (we are self employed).

DP has initially said he would look to sell this house and use the equity to boost our budget and buy something bigger if we were to have another, then rethink our pension (we do potentially have a backup but it's not 100% ATM) He also said we might end up buying something small to extend but that would mean living in it as it is and then effectively living on a building site with 3 DCs and a dog which is my idea of a nightmare. We kind of did that with our current DCs and I've grown up moving a lot and living amongst renovations and for once I would just like to be finished and ready for a new arrival without having to worry about it, heck maybe even having a nursery ready. Is this self indulgent of me? We are a bit strapped for time as it is because we wouldn't want a much bigger age gap however I'm not prepared to start trying until we have secured a bigger house as I don't want to be in limbo with it.

• From a financial aspect I want to be able to afford things comfortably and be able to save and do things as a family without having to worry about it too much, and call me selfish/greedy but that includes materialistic things like holidays, I would value our financial security and comfort more than having a potential 3rd child which could put a strain on our finances and impact our current DCs.

Again this is something we will discuss tonight but I'd love to be able to have some insight to consider in terms of the expense of an extra child in all aspects of daily life and things like holidays and so on. We are not currently rolling in it and are conscious about finances however that might change but I'd like to be able to work out how doable it is.

Apart from the above which are the main points for me I also want to discuss / get advice on:

• the shift of dynamic from 2 to 3
• going back to sleepless nights and the baby stage
• cars - I'm guessing we would need something big to fit 3 car seats?
• practicalities like arranging a babysitter for 3 vs 2 - PILS can just about manage with 2 ATM if need be (it's not like we go off on jollies or need it much) but I'm conscious of the fact that it might be more difficult with 3 if it came down to it - any insight/advice?
• I love being a mum and love my DCs more than anything, I love having them climb into bed with us in the mornings for cuddles and seeing them grow and their characters develop, we have a lovely balance with them at the moment and I'm a bit in between worrying about a 3rd throwing a spanner in the works and making it a struggle or maybe another DC would end up just slotting in perfectly and making it even better - again any insight into this aspect would be great.

I would really appreciate any feedback / advice on the above points and also any potential things I forgot about.

I have 3. It's hard. The first year was really hard. My stress levels were through the roof. I'm a stay at home parent, have been since eldest arrived. Youngest just started morning school nursery. Ages 7, 5 and 3. There's 3.5 years between eldest and youngest (not timings I would've chosen) it was really hard. But, and it's a massive but, we are out of the worst now, nd i absolutely love it. I love the bond they have, I love the dynamic, I love the crazy shows and discos they put on, I love the laughter they bring. The funny games they play with each other. I wouldnt change it for the world. The finances don't really come into it. We had a 4 bed house (3 was always on the cards) we did need a bigger car (cannot rate and Alhambra highly enough). Holidays have always been camping / cottages in UK. We did go to France last year ( was glad we hadn't booked anything for this year) lock down was hard, but that's hopefully a once in a generation thing. I'm hoping to go back to work in the next 12 months, I'm grateful to have been able to give them this time, it's been good. The stages ahead, who knows, but the financial practicalities are important, but the positives can't be totted up and accounted for in the same way as the finicaial ones can.

I think you are realistic, not materialistic at all.

The chance of multiple births goes up with age. Your '3rd' might be two, or even three. And I have a colleague with quads

As a wise friend of mine says, 'When you get to 20, you stick - you don't twist'

I was told never let them outnumber you and we stuck to that!

We had the same dilemma a while back - we have a big enough house etc. but for similar reasons to you we decided against it. We like holidays, days out and everything is geared to families of 4. Sounds silly written down but I know the practicalities would grind me down. Also, my DM helped out a lot with the existing 2 but I don’t think she wild fancy reverting to looking after a baby again.

I think it was a good decision for us - I’ve had some significant pay rises since and I think that’s largely due to the extra effort I can put in now I’m not doing nursery runs.

We are now getting a dog 😃

I have 3, 5yrs, 3yrs and 2yrs. Number 3 was a surprise. For me having 3 under 3 was incredibly hard work for the first year but i wouldn't change anything now. They are very close and i love watching them together.

We are currently in a 2 bed house, we turned the dinkng room into a playroom so the bedroom is literally just for sleeping in although its a big room so theres plenty of space in there, the eldest 2 have mid sleepers so have their own space underneath. We are about to move to a 3 bed though because my son needs his own room now he has asd and doesnt sleep well. I have a toyota verso so not a massive car and i can fit 3 carseats along the backseat but have the option of 2 seats in the boot if needed. We already had all baby stuff so didnt really have much outlay when 3rd was a baby and day to day life isnt much more expensive but things like days out and holidays do cost more.

I dont find people refuse to look after them if we need babysitters (which isnt often) my mum has them regularly, their godmother is happy to look after them and we also use one of their preschool teachers as a babysitter.

Im a sahm because childcare would just be to expensive as well as my sons needs meaning its better for me to be at home and although i do sometimes feel like its a juggling act they all get 1:1 time and i dont think anyone misses out

Three or more just feels more like a family to me. My view is that there should be more children than adults and more animals than children!

Thank you for all the replies.

I really relate to pp who said its a head vs heart decision.
If it was up to DP he'd have one now and just make do and just go for it and these things work themselves out, I want us to be comfortable, have a playroom for once, not struggle for bedrooms when they're older, not worry about being able to afford things for them (I'm not saying brand new expensive designer gear and whatever they ask for but I'd like to be able to give them the occasional treat).

I'm also a bit worried about being outnumbered

But I'd love to do it one more time if we had the means which is I think what it boils down to.

I have 3 but not through choice (number 2 turned out to be twins)

I find it very hard and am still very jealous of people who have 2. It’s all the monetary things you say but it’s more than that.

You only have 2 hands and the kids always want to hold onto your hand walking down the street.

If there was only 2 kids then my husband and I could give each one some 1:1 time at the weekend - much harder to organise with 3. 2 of the kids are playing together but the 3rd is left out....

There just seems to be little things every day which makes me think things would be better with 2 kids

My dsis has 3, the first 2 were 2 years apart, the 3rd was 4 years later - would have been earlier but had a miscarriage.

She said it was OK when 3rd was small, the older dc helped out, played etc. As they all got older the dynamic was awful. There was always one child left out of games, they ganged up on each other, there was a lot of mean-ness (which is not in my dsis or BIL's nature). Any combination of 4 was great, but add in the 5th, and it was horrid to be around.

As they grew, teenage dc (age 13 and 15) resented having to go to child-related family fun activities suitable for a 9yo. Youngest couldn't go to events suitable for older dc. Often one parent would do something with one dc, other with 2 (split either by age or gender), there were very few successful family occasions.

It's all settled down now they are adults, and the siblings are all close to each other, and to dsis and BIL, but it was a difficult dynamic.

DM was the middle one of three and she said that having an odd number always meant one was left out. Even in adulthood they have problems with one getting the hump because they feel excluded from something.

I also think its head v heart. We have three but we always intended to. I'm one of three and DH is one of three and it felt like the "right" number.

I also think you're overthinking it. The reality is that most people cope just fine no matter how many children have - they adapt. I had my DC in quick succession - 3.5 years. My own belief is that a 3 year age gap between kids makes it easier as 3 year olds are relatively independent compared to younger children and in your case the older two would be at school.

We have a three-bed house (two DC share) and a normal five seat family car and always have done. If your house is small you de-clutter and make it work. You don't have to have a big house and big car - those are excuses really. If you don't want three children that's a perfectly valid position to take but don't assume it's impossible without a big house and big car because that's not true.

In answer to your question YAB a bit U and a bit materialistic but if that's your priority then that's up to you. It sounds as if your DH has different priorities.

TBH I think the anecdotal posts saying my friend/auntie/neighbour was one of three and one was always left out are pretty unhelpful. It's always possible to find examples of family dynamics which work and ones that don't regardless of what the set up is. You definitely can't predict it.

FWIW my kids (two DS and one DD) get on very well. Obviously they annoy each other occasionally and I've got no idea how they will get on as adults but our household is surprisingly harmonious most of the time

When things don't go to plan, having two children is manageable, another one can be the difference between getting back in your feet and being in the shit.

You also need to consider the impact of you were to give birth to a child in poor health or disabled and you had no options but to give up your self employment. What would be the impact on the family?

You say that the intention would be to rent your house, so would you be able to afford a new mortgage?

Have you considered the cost of being a LL nowadays? Taxes are high, expectations even higher. It's now very difficult to make a profit.

You say your pension pot is currently uncertain. This is worrying and should be your focus.

From what you've written, I would say it would be madness to go for a 3rd.

We have three. I always wanted three and I wouldn’t change a thing. It’s hard 😂, but then two was hard and nothing has ever been harder than going from zero kids to one kid (my first was an absolute nightmare baby).

We have three, but had a four bed house and seven seater car before we had our third so it wasn’t too much of a leap for us.
In terms of practicalities/family life it’s been great for us... we had a very small age gap between the older 2 then 3.5 years until the third so it felt much easier with the big age gap. Now have 2 at school and one who is nearly 2 so I have plenty of time for the youngest (work part time).
Financially the youngest hasn’t cost us much so far, although another 4 years of childcare fees is obviously a bind! And it’ll cost much more as they get older.
Realistically no one can make a decision for you as everyone’s circumstances are different. I found going from 1-2 far harder than 2-3, but of course it’s not the same for everyone.
Good luck with whatever you decide.

Watching with interest as I'm in the same situation myself. Although I have a 12 year age gap between dd and ds so feel like ds is going to grow up practically an only child if we didn't have another

Thank you for posters who mentioned the potential troubled dynamic if there's an odd one out. It's something that also crossed my mind but I forgot to write down.

@lakeswimmer thanks for your input. I completely understand where you are coming from. I think the reality for me is I don't want to "just make do" i don't want to be worrying, making lots of allowances and potentially struggling (be it for space or financially). I've seen my DGPs do it (albeit in much different times), I've seen my parents do it due to their own fault. I like stability. I'm happy with and very grateful for my 2 DCs and I know one day I want them to have their own bedrooms and own space as they will benefit from it. And as much as I do want a 3rd I wouldn't be willing for my current DCs or myself and DP to forgo a certain level of security and comfort in order to have another child. I don't just want to be scraping by and scrambling all the time, maybe that is materialistic but I don't want us to spend the next 20 years working like crazy and never really getting to enjoy or do nice things because a 3rd child stretched us to the brink. Hence this post and trying to consider all angles.

@dontdisturbmenow Thank you for your point, I am taking into consideration the potential outcome if we had a child who was in poor health or had any disabilities - I didn't really want to put it in my OP as its such a difficult subject but it is a harsh reality that also has to be taken into consideration when making the decision. Which is where I think the financial aspect plays into it quite a lot as well - again this is something I will bring up tonight.

When we were weighing up DC2 a major concern was financial and that's why I know that DC3 is off the table even though we'd both quite like 3. People seem to be talking a lot about the immediate costs of nursery, new car, etc but that wasn't our big concern - those things are temporary and we'd get through some lean years - it was more the long-term and what we'd be able to offer them as teens and young adults. Obviously that's much harder to predict - who knows exactly what will happen to our financial situation over the next two decades - but the likelihood is that we'd have plenty for one DC, be a bit stretched but manageable for two but that for three we might really struggle to offer them things we think are important (like extra-curriculars) or financial support as young adults. Some families don't think those things are important but we do, and I don't think that's materialistic, it's pragmatic.

You aren't being self-indulgent or materialistic at all OP! It's sensible to think about the financial and logistical impact of another child on your existing family.

I have three. It's lovely now that DC3 is 11, but I found the first few years very hard. We didn't have the space issues that you mention, but DC3 was by far the hardest of my three - a terrible sleeper as a baby and a very willful determined toddler. Even now, it's much more complicated with three - mine are all really sporty, which is great, but it means that DH and I spend our evenings and weekends driving them to training and matches so a third child just increases the practical load.

Honestly it makes me laugh when someone says that the third one will just fit in. That hasn't been my experience at all!

We had this discussion but the thought having to work longer in order to pay uni fees was enough to put me firmly off.

presumably a third will have a long term impact on the other 2.

The eldest and youngest will have nothing much in common either - clothes out of fashion etc.

I am 9 years younger than my eldest sister and had very little to do with each other growing up.

I don’t have any advice as such as I only have one (although would like a second) but I just wanted to say you are absolutely not being materialistic to give careful consideration to the impact a third child would have on your finances, lifestyle and existing children. That’s responsible family planning!

@ComicePear

You aren't being self-indulgent or materialistic at all OP! It's sensible to think about the financial and logistical impact of another child on your existing family.

I have three. It's lovely now that DC3 is 11, but I found the first few years very hard. We didn't have the space issues that you mention, but DC3 was by far the hardest of my three - a terrible sleeper as a baby and a very willful determined toddler. Even now, it's much more complicated with three - mine are all really sporty, which is great, but it means that DH and I spend our evenings and weekends driving them to training and matches so a third child just increases the practical load.

Honestly it makes me laugh when someone says that the third one will just fit in. That hasn't been my experience at all!

My third child is almost three and until about six weeks ago was never asleep before 11pm. In my bed. And no naps during the day either And awake at 5 am

If things hadn’t turned a corner I think I would have gone absolutely gaga

@overweightcat
Admittedly mine are young but I haven’t seen any of the odd one out thing yet. Already they seem to appreciate each other in different ways and seek one or the other o for something else as well as play together

They all also seem to love their own company and enjoy free play on their own to together.

Whether that will last or not only time will tell.

I also think @Hardbackwriter makes a very good point about finances : it’s when they are older I worry about with university do they want to go, where they will live etc.

I've just re-read your OP and seen that you guys are not married, self-employed, and have no pensions. When combined with:

I don't want to be worrying, making lots of allowances and potentially struggling (be it for space or financially)

Then to me, the choice is clear on the financial side alone - especially since your earning power will be reduced by the physical practicalities of pregnancy and babyhood on you as a mother. You're adding a cost centre (maybe not at first but kids get more expensive as the years go on) while also reducing your income, and you've got potential long term liabilities that aren't yet covered by a pension.

IME it's the people who 'think everything will be ok' and go on to have the kids they fancy that struggle the most. There's a thread on here about a household that has 4 kids, earns 70k but can't afford to contribute the 5k shortfall of the student loan.

If in 15 years, all your kids want to go to uni, will you be able to afford the expected parental contribution? What about their hobbies, clothes, trips & transport. That's what you need to be worried about.