To be upset by this...nursery issue?

[pleasecanisleep]

Just picked up dc2 from nursery, he has only recently started. It's the same nursery dc1 attends and it has been amazing for him, although he was almost 3 when he went there whereas dc2 has just turned 2 and will understandably take longer to settle.

Due to covid we have set picking up slots but I was literally passing by and had tried calling a couple of times earlier to ask if I could pick him up early today, but no answer so thought if there's no other parents I'll ring the door bell and ask if it's ok to collect him.

Anyway it's a nature type nursery so half outdoors, half indoors and the entrance to his bubble is an outside gate in the huge garden accessed by a gravel path. When I got closer to the gate I could hear him crying and I looked through the holes in the fence to see him stood completely alone, no other adults in sight. I also left it for a while before ringing the bell to see if he really was being left (admittedly not very long because I didn't want to taunt him, plus I felt so awful seeing him like that).

When the staff member answered the gate I asked if he'd been left alone for long, she looked a bit taken aback and said "oh he heard you coming, he heard the bell. " But I didn't ring it for a minute or two plus didn't see any parents around picking their dc up before me. Also I heard him crying and it was louder as we approached the gate so he was clearly stood there waiting, upset.

I'm torn because one part of me is absolutely raging and thinking what the fuck are you doing leaving a just turned 2 year old alone out of sight, who still constantly puts rocks and all sorts in his mouth and on the other hand I get that the world doesn't revolve around my child and that he's one of many for them to watch.

I'm quite upset really because I feel the trust is gone and now don't know what to do with dc1 because he's settle and doing well there and due to start school in September.

It's a 6ft fence but it wouldn't have taken someone long to hop the fence or reach over and unlock the bolts, especially given the fact no one was near the gate.

AIBU here?

No you’re not being unreasonable. I’d set out the facts outlined above calmly to the manager, especially if you think someone could easily have taken him. We put a lot of trust in nurseries, both mine went to them and it’s utterly key you trust them.

Thank you Pumpkin. I think that's what I'll do.

It's really thrown me because I really trusted them before but now I feel like I'll be worrying the whole time he's there.

YANBU, that definitely warrants a complaint and an explanation from them.

I agree. Although I too understand that they can't get one to one care all the time, no way should a two-year old have been left alone outside....and crying too! It would be perfectly reasonable to calmly raise the issue with the nursery.

Oh poor wee fella! & you, it's hard to see them being ignite & really damages the trust.

It would be a shame to move DS1 when he's settled there and if there haven't been any problems there I'd try to put it down to 'a bad day' AFTER I'd emailed them & I wouldn't hesitate to say you do not appreciate being lied to.it's not reassuring, it destroys trust.

YANBU, 2 years old was alone crying It’s enough for concern plus some safety issues.
And how on earth he could hear the bell and knew it’s you to start crying? Very strange explanation.

I’d have been sorely tempted to hop the fence and take him home. Wonder how long they’d take before they noticed?

Yanbu. I think most people would be upset by that. I'd probably be less worried about the abduction possibility than i would have been about how scary it would have been for your little one.

Very strange explanation.

This is the part that's left me feeling really stressed about it all...if she'd have said "ah I know he's been by the gate waiting but don't worry we were watching him closely and constantly reassuring him giving cuddles in between getting the others ready" etc etc I wouldn't be so upset about it.

But it felt like she seemed a bit embarrassed and tried to fob me off in all honesty.

If the gate wasn't locked properly and he was alone, I'd be in a serious rage.

I know some kids ( I myself once!) Loved to be left alone and just play, even at such a young age, but there was always a responsible eye kept on me and I believe this is the issue...had he refused to come in, threw a tantrum and in the 'walk and they'll follow' vain they waited and watched from a window...mine never do this though! They will dig themselves a trench and continue to scream from it before coming in and that is why I have to watch them like a hawk.

Not acceptable though, even for a nature/forest school.

YANBU
Could someone have taken him without their knowledge?

To clarify the gate has a bolt but someone tall would easily be able to reach over and open both bolts.

It doesn't have a keypad or manual lock. It's very much a last minute Covid adaptation.

I honestly don't know what to do.

I honestly don't know what to do.

Exactly what Pumpkinnose suggests in an email.

@Suzi888 quite possibly yes. I walked up to the gate and heard him crying but didn't hear any adults or kids nearby so I looked through a hole in the fence to see if it was him and he was just sobbing, completely alone. I'm not sure they would have known if I'd used a nearby stump to hop the fence and unbolt it.

They're both due in tomorrow and I'm panicked about what to do.

Covid seems to have changed things a lot.

I would email the manager and take it from there. Does the nursery feed into your eldest child’s school? The likelihood is there will be somewhere else with children that will be going to the same school if you do decide to move them both.

I'd definitely raise it with the nursery manager. I would have no qualms about mentioning it to them and asking them to explain why he was out there alone. You are, after all, paying them to look after your son.

Nearly exactly the same happened to my son, I emailed the manager who completely denied it, had she acknowledged it and ensured changes were made to prevent it again I would have kept him there, as it was I withdrew him immediately and found another provider.

Mistakes can happen, we all make mistakes but the important thing is that things are put in place to prevent it happening again.

”When the staff member answered the gate I asked if he'd been left alone for long, she looked a bit taken aback and said "oh he heard you coming, he heard the bell.”

This is the sort of thing a lot of childcare people seem to say to try and assuage parent’s guilt at leaving their child. It’s still not right, but it isn’t necessarily a matter of them not knowing he was there and lying to cover their backs for bad practice. But it could also be that there are safety concerns. Since you have two children there it’s important to find out which because if it’s safety you need to be concerned about your other child too, whereas if it’s that your youngest is miserable there, you have different decisions to make.

I would probably have tackled it at the time along the lines of “I know that’s not true because I was here for a while before I rang the bell, how about you try again?” Because going gently when you are being lied to is ineffective. However, you didn’t, so I would ask for a meeting with management and the staff person you spoke with, via zoom if necessary, and lay out what you said here. I would not email it or the like because I would not be able to trust their response if they had an opportunity to concoct a story between them.

I’m assuming here that just because you couldn’t see a staff member doesn’t mean they couldn’t see him. I would be concerned And a bit surprised about a nursery that was half in/half out if it didn’t have constant sight lines or monitoring of some sort into the outdoor space. If you are certain he was there alone and no nursery staff could see him I would instead be going straight down the safety route and asking about their policies for ensuring children aren’t outside unsupervised, how this particular incident happened and what they intend to change to ensure it can’t be repeated.

@pleasecanisleep

To clarify the gate has a bolt but someone tall would easily be able to reach over and open both bolts.

It doesn't have a keypad or manual lock. It's very much a last minute Covid adaptation.

I honestly don't know what to do.

Does that mean until Covid the gate was able to be opened from the outside?

Or was there no gate there?

I'd honestly say go with your gut. I turned up to pick my DS3 from nursery once and walked out into the garden area. It was set up where it meant that I could see them but they couldnt see me, if that makes sense. I saw one of the workers shouting at a child you was clearly very upset. He was begging her to pick him up and she was shouting at him. As soon as she saw me her whole attitude changed, picked the child up tried to settle him. It was clearly for my benefit.

It shook me and I took DS3 out of nursery and put him in a different one.

I would raise it with the manager and see what they say 😏

This kind of happened to me.

Years ago I had dropped dd1 of at nursary she was around two and was really resistant when I dropped her off. There was shops near by and I popped in and got some things. When I was walking back past the nursary I could hear her from down the path so I walked to the fence and looked through.

Her key worker was just stood staring in to the distance with a cup of tea in her hand and dd was lay on the wet floor crying her eyes out. I don’t think she had stopped crying since I’d dropped her off. I stood watching for a few more minutes then went back in and took her home. I emailed the nursary the reasons why I wouldn’t be bringing her back and a few months later I heard that the key worker had been let go.

Follow your gut

I used to really not like how my son’s top was damp from split water and filthy from split lunch food every time I collected him.
I didn’t mind how he looked but I did mind that in winter it was damp against his skin.
I gave them spare top every day but after a run of them not changing him, I moved him very swiftly.

Every day you’re happy with the environment your children is in is a day too much.

The best way is to do how BoomBoomsCousin suggested.
Ask for a meeting but don’t tell them why and ask them again for an explanation.

I would'nt be happy at all.
I'd send an email and depending on reply ,
I would move him to a new nursery.