To be upset by this...nursery issue?

[pleasecanisleep]

Just picked up dc2 from nursery, he has only recently started. It's the same nursery dc1 attends and it has been amazing for him, although he was almost 3 when he went there whereas dc2 has just turned 2 and will understandably take longer to settle.

Due to covid we have set picking up slots but I was literally passing by and had tried calling a couple of times earlier to ask if I could pick him up early today, but no answer so thought if there's no other parents I'll ring the door bell and ask if it's ok to collect him.

Anyway it's a nature type nursery so half outdoors, half indoors and the entrance to his bubble is an outside gate in the huge garden accessed by a gravel path. When I got closer to the gate I could hear him crying and I looked through the holes in the fence to see him stood completely alone, no other adults in sight. I also left it for a while before ringing the bell to see if he really was being left (admittedly not very long because I didn't want to taunt him, plus I felt so awful seeing him like that).

When the staff member answered the gate I asked if he'd been left alone for long, she looked a bit taken aback and said "oh he heard you coming, he heard the bell. " But I didn't ring it for a minute or two plus didn't see any parents around picking their dc up before me. Also I heard him crying and it was louder as we approached the gate so he was clearly stood there waiting, upset.

I'm torn because one part of me is absolutely raging and thinking what the fuck are you doing leaving a just turned 2 year old alone out of sight, who still constantly puts rocks and all sorts in his mouth and on the other hand I get that the world doesn't revolve around my child and that he's one of many for them to watch.

I'm quite upset really because I feel the trust is gone and now don't know what to do with dc1 because he's settle and doing well there and due to start school in September.

It's a 6ft fence but it wouldn't have taken someone long to hop the fence or reach over and unlock the bolts, especially given the fact no one was near the gate.

AIBU here?

If you don't want to send them there tomorrow do you have any other options? Could you ring work and explain you have a childcare emergency?

I'll be honest I wouldnt feel happy sending them back. I wouldn't trust whatever they reply to an email as they'll just be covering their backs. I hate the idea that they might be leaving him to cry as some kind of punishment or he might be crying because he is scared and lonely and no-one is comforting him. I'm sorry as I know this might be upsetting for you and of course I wasn't there and that may not be what was happening at all or the impression you got. As others have said.go with your gut. Yes your youngest is happy but it's just October he can have almost a full year somewhere else before school.

Thanks again all for your replies.

I have other options for tomorrow and have decided to not take either of them there in the morning.

Still not sure about the long term really because they were absolutely outstanding with our eldest when he started and a huge improvement on the first nursery he went to when younger. How can it go from being so great to so shit in an instant?

The staff member was deputy manager!! I don't know what to think anymore. Even if someone was outside it's very overgrown and the angle of where they'd have been (out of my sight) they couldn't have seen him clearly at the gate.

He's just turned 2 and constantly shoving everything in his mouth. In the time I explained what happened to DH we had to intervene 3 times to remove objects out of his mouth!

Does the nursery have CCTV/parentcam? Ask them to show you the preceding few minutes if so.
Depending on how strongly you feel you could also consider an Ofsted tip off although not sure if things are normal there at present.
I do understand your guandry though my eldest had a brilliant experience at nursery and then my youngest had a bad experience that they handled badly and it left me wondering what to do and almost had them in 2 nurseries at one point.

YANBU.

Am I correct in thinking that your DS was left outside alone, whilst the other children and staff were indoors?

If so totally unacceptable and a huge Safeguarding breach. Ratios for 2 to 3 year olds are 1:4 and those rartiis exsist for a reason.

I would be asking to see CTV footage

If it is a nursery that is part of chain you need to esculate this to both The Area Manager and The Safeguarding Team.

All of the big nursery chains will have an area/regional manager and most will have a safeguarding team at head office. Contact them before you speak to the nursery manager. They will investigate.

You need to speak to the nursery manager, but you also need to take this further!

If it is an independent nursery then go to ipoc/mash at your local authority.

If you are not happy with the outcome then go to Ofsted.

The trust has gone and you need to find another nursery. Go with your gut instinct. You, as a parent need to feel happy and secure that your child is being looked after, educated and cared for and their needs met when you are at work. You cannot do that with this nursery and that is going to impact on your own work and stress levels.

Remember when you visit a nursery, some will put on a show because they want your money. Today you saw a snapshot of what goes on when you or other parents are not there. It is sub standard practice and your child deserves better.

I would not be happy op. I would speak to the Manager. Not good enough at all.

I once walked into a nursery and there was a baby in a bouncer facing the wall in a room where a girl was bleaching the floor. Terrible

Hope you get it resolved and hope your little boy has a better day tomorrow.

I had my two yr old in a private well respected nursery and arrived early to see her being frogmarched across the playground by an unsympathetic person then standing alone not wanting to join in a circle song outside and waving pathetically and being ignored by a passing staff member she knew. Along with her coming home once with poo on her clothes and them always throwing away all her lunchbox food so I could never see what she had eaten or not. Fuck putting my next preverbal child in any nursery.

She's bullshitting you there

I know what you mean too about the putting stuff in mouth. My 2 did this all the time, stones, bits of chippings etc etc. You have to watch them constantly

Further to my previous comment, my dd struggled to settle in a nursery where she went just mornings. One day I walked past and a staff member was laid on the floor next to her as dd was not happy. Turned out she had laid with her for 45 minutes while dd felt what she felt and was then able to get up and join in. Her key worker was brilliant, the manager was shit. The KW put the time and effort in and I trusted her. I didn't trust the manager and after yet another change I moved her.

DD had been moved from a play school her brother had been happy at and they have conceded they didn't handle her situation well and I was happy to send her younger brother there when it was his time.

When I told my boss what the staff had said about her child crying because he knew I was coming (he couldn't tell the time at two) she removed him immediately after a pointless conversation where they wouldn't take any responsibility.

If you feel you want to give them a chance to explain themselves - maybe ask you urself why, no judgement on you - then make your decision on what they say. Don't hint you might remove the boys as they will say whatever they need to to keep the money coming in.

Good luck.

@SunshineCake thank you for your post. That's really helpful.

I think in all honesty the reason I haven't made the decision to remove them both permanently immediately is because pre covid you wouldn't have set pick ups and would be escorted through the premises to pick your child up through a double door system where they'd lock the door into the nursery behind them before allowing you into the foyer. Then the external door would automatically lock and you'd be taken through and all the dc were literally having the time of their lives. That's really no exaggeration. The methods of teaching through play were miles above any of the other nurseries we'd been to. And there would be constant parents doing that from 2pm plus later morning drop offs and I find it hard to believe they would allow what happened yesterday on the regular.

I think maybe I feel a bit disconnected now because of the understandable restrictions due to covid. So we basically see a gate and a staff member with a quick, they did xyz today.

Plus I may be projecting due to deep down issues with my own mothers lack of care. Which is why I'm not sure what my gut is thinking because I could be depriving them of a wonderful start to their life before school.

I'm sure a quick phone call with the manager would have the issue sorted immediately but I'll never know unless I peep through the fence all day!!! Which is why I'm so torn.

Email so theres a formal record.

The trust has gone and you'll always be worried about what you dont see. I would look at other options.

I think the carer being deputy manager isnt always an indication of them being amazing carers. I suspect at my DC nursery people were promoted on friendships and ability to do paperwork.

When my DC started nursery I thought they were amazing. Maybe the baby room was. But as he got older it was just crowd control. They merged 2 rooms and the kids roamed about in a noisy chaotic environment all day. It didnt really suit his personality. He also came home with poo in pants a couple of times and I heard other parents complaining about similar. The nursery was "outstanding", then swiftly lost its rating after some epic fuck up about a child being collected by an unapproved family member.

No matter what they tell you now, you will always have this in the back of your mind. I’d be moving my kids to another nursery.

^^ this.

I also wouldnt feel comfortable leaving my toddler there after this incident.
Quality can change over years, hence why they might have been great with your eldest and now something unacceptable happened to youngest.

That's really upsetting, you're definitely not overreacting - I would be exactly the same!
Him being alone crying, the choking risk, the shoddy reason. None of it would sit well with me. Have you emailed them?

Nurseries can go downhill quickly through things like staff turnover, and I am sure covid will have changed things a lot. But also worth thinking that what suits one child may not suit another.

We ended up with Dd and ds in different childcare for a bit because they needed different things. They were both in a nursery together, which then went really downhill when a few key staff left. We took them out and put them with a childminder. We then took them out again because the childminder really did not get on with my Dd, we lost all trust so moved both children. Dd went to preschool, and ds went to a second local nursery.

Anyway the point of this long tail was, yes nurseries can go downhill quickly, but also what suits your first child may not necessarily suit your second.

I'm not quite sure from what you said if you were son was left outside by mistake or if the nursery does a free flow meaning children can choose to be inside or outside.
It doesn't really matter that much because a member of staff should still have been there.
It's possible that your child had literally just started crying or that he was told off and cried but then that doesn't really fit with what the nursery said.
I think especially as you feel the trust is gone (understandable) you have to look for another nursery or childminder. It's a shame for your eldest but you'll never be fully confident they are caring for your children properly.
At the end of the day you are giving your most precious thing to someone else and you need to be confident of the care they receive.
If you really don't want to move your eldest you could let him stay but I'd find somewhere else for both of them.

If you think this might happen again then you have to move them. They also lied to you. Bottom line this is your child. You are his advocate. If you move the children they won't remember his name by Christmas. You don't have to justify your decision. Lies equals trust broken and if you can't trust the people looking after your children then there is no option but to move them, imo.

So your 2yr was left alone outside ?

Crying

No staff in the garden