Outdated and racist comments telephone befriendee

[Redolent]

Last year I signed up to become a befriender with a charity for older people. I was ‘allocated‘ a 72 year old woman, and we get along quite well - our meet-ups used to consist of an hour long visit, tea and a chat every fortnight. Things have obviously moved to speaking over phone during lockdown.

Our conversations are on the whole cordial and friendly, but she does come out with so many comments that are presumptuous but that I don’t feel I have the space to contest. Rebuking me for on-demand breastfeeding at 6 weeks old (“you’re the boss, she’s the baby!” - she used to be a nurse in the 80s). Telling me off when I told her I’d gone out with friends for a meal and left dd with my husband (“you should be getting a babysitter and doing things together instead of you gallivanting on your own!’) And other comments too which I’ve felt to be racially offensive - asking a couple of times if my husband was upset that we were having a girl (because that’s what people from ‘your culture’ do), and then a few days ago, speaking about crime in the area, saying that people from my community were basically ‘all crooks’!! Her expression.

She’s lonely and has multiple health conditions and I know she really appreciates our calls. For the most part, I like them too. But I just feel like I can’t contest her views for some reason...that I’m there as a listening voice, to keep her company and that’s it. Is that fair, in my role as a volunteer? I really don’t want to argue with her or have any tensions, but it’s galling to hear her speak sometimes. What would you do?

I would call the charity for advice.

She is being deliberately mean. I wouldn't be able to put up with that. If you don’t feel able to tell her you are offended by her comments then I’d stop calling her and tell the volunteer group the reason why. I used to visit an old lady in her 90s through Age Uk. She never once offered me even a glass of water during the 9 months I visited. She asked me constantly to do jobs for her and then her niece would take her out on the days I visited so I’d turn up and no one was there and I’d worry she had fallen over. The niece actually had a go at me for calling Age UK to say she hadn't answered the door (I wasn’t allowed to call her direct). That was my last visit.

Perhaps your ‘friendship’ has run it’s course? I wonder if you might be ready to meet a new friend for the charity and let someone else be a friend to this lady?

Op I get it. When you're not white you get so used to racism that you can feel like you're in the wrong for calling standing up against racists. But then it slowly eats you up inside when you don't.

No advice as I always end up sitting there and taking it. I just wanted you to know you're not the only one.

It sounds like she’s using you as a verbal punchbag- she’s lonely, bored, whatever and takes it out on you by making racist comments to offend you and make you feel uncomfortable. Whatever her issues are that’s not ok and you shouldn’t feel like you have to put up with that.

@KylieKoKo

Op I get it. When you're not white you get so used to racism that you can feel like you're in the wrong for calling standing up against racists. But then it slowly eats you up inside when you don't.

No advice as I always end up sitting there and taking it. I just wanted you to know you're not the only one.

☹️ You encapsulated it so well. It’s like there’s a raging voice inside of me saying ‘that is NOT true’ and thinking of all kinds of rejoinders, but it’s just ‘mmhmm’ in the moment.

Honestly it never occurred to me to sever things. Partly because I feel sorry for her - no family, multiple health conditions, etc. A few friends she calls, and book clubs, but other friends who have seemingly cut her out of their lives from nowhere, for reasons she can’t understand... Also a past history of mental heath issues (she hasn’t opened up further about that). But yeah, I just have the sense that I’m a volunteer and I’m there to support someone elderly and this is what I have to do...

I’m BME and a lot of VERY similar experiences to you are the reason why I now don’t volunteer or engage with anything like this.

Quit and use the time to do something for yourself.

You say you're there to listen to her, but if you're telling her about your personal life...such as breastfeeding and going out with your friends, then I would politely correct her assumptions.

If it was really getting to me, then I'd stop the befriending with her.

As a black person myself, I don't like such comments and I will gently challenge them in the workplace, but dealing with an old woman who was brought up in racist Britain, it's hard to change the negative views she has and I'm not sure I'd have the energy to explain something that is probably beyond her comprehension.

You are a volunteer, someone who willingly gives up their time to make someone else's life a bit better. Not that you should be patting yourself on the back and feeling like a saint but you are a good, kind person. You certainly do not deserve to be made to feel bad by someone you are helping/providing friendship/company for. I think a call to the charity could be helpful and hopefully they can have a word with the lady and let her know that she has spoken out of line. It needn't be awkward, and if she makes it so then you can just explain that you're not prepared to continue and you wish her well. Don't carry on letting her make you feel bad, you do not deserve that.

Crikey, she’s not really ‘elderly’ (in my book anyway).

Life’s too short to put up with her offensive twaddle, my DM is getting on for 90 and had a stand up row with a neighbour last week because the neighbour was spouting racist shite!

I’m sure another, non racist, person would appreciate your befriending time

@SandyY2K

You say you're there to listen to her, but if you're telling her about your personal life...such as breastfeeding and going out with your friends, then I would politely correct her assumptions.

If it was really getting to me, then I'd stop the befriending with her.

As a black person myself, I don't like such comments and I will gently challenge them in the workplace, but dealing with an old woman who was brought up in racist Britain, it's hard to change the negative views she has and I'm not sure I'd have the energy to explain something that is probably beyond her comprehension.

Yeah I did say that I’m a listening voice. Maybe I need to rephrase. I mean, it is a befriending service in the sense that I’m the one who’s responsible for initiating the calls (/used to visit her in her house), aak her questions etc but naturally it evolves into a two-way conversation. She’ll ask me about how/ what method I’m feeding the baby, and things like what I get up to in the weekend. Obviously I’ll answer sincerely.

I didn’t correct her assumptions about the breastfeeding issue because it’s clear that they’re so deeply ingrained and historical, that there’s no point. The race issue is a bit different.

I think in a charity role like the one you are in, it's understood that the people you may speak to come from all walks of life, they may have outdated views or one that are radically different than your own, they may have some level of dementia or loss of appropriate social behaviour, and some are just jerks. They are however still in need. It's not always easy work to deal with people who are in need but aren't easy or always nice - or ever nice - to interact with and to some extent it requires a certain personality and distance.

I would say the way to respond, from my perspective, would depend on what I thought was going on. If the person was having issues with social regulation or dementia or had very fragile mental health I would ignore it and not assume it really reflected much about them.

If I thought they were mentally sharp but just very outdated/from another era in their thinking, I would probably feel free to disagree, but not in a way that took the comment very personally. "Oh, that idea about sons is pretty outdated in my community now, just like yours my husband is thrilled." And carry on the conversation.

If I thought she was trying to get a rise out of me or was really just a horrible person who despised me, I might see if I could work with someone else and so could she - the interaction wouldn't do either of us much good like that.

Whilst people volunteer to help others, it is a two-way process and it is not wrong to recognise that you need to feel positive about what you are doing. Unfortunately, she has strong opinions and is not shy of voicing them. If you feel it is not your place (as a volunteer) or you feel uncomfortable correcting her or offering her an alternative view, I would let your volunteer manager know and consider allowing someone else to befriend her. You are not there as a verbal punchbag and you are not failing by recognising this.

Do you have a team leader or similar at the charity? In your position I’d speak to them about another volunteer taking over the task of calling this particular lady. I do a similar volunteering job and I’ve seen this sort of thing happen a few times - sometimes the relationship between client and befriender just runs its course (I’ve had cases where it’s come to an end after a few weeks and others where we still chat regularly several months later). Lonely/ill or not, she is being horribly offensive and you don’t have to put up with that. I’m BME too, FWIW, and I wouldn’t carry on calling someone who made those comments to me (and my TL would support me in this 100%). You sound like a really kind and thoughtful person

Yes you are volunteering, but volunteering to help, not be subject to racism. I'd quit if I were you.

You just need to stay neutral. Maybe the occasional "really?! I don't think of it in that way" and then change the subject. At the end of the day you're there to do a job, not turn her woke or get into an argument. Have you ever heard of Unconditional Positive Regard? Maybe read up on it as i believe it's something professionals employ so that they can work with people who are far worse than a bit racist/ old fashioned.

Speak to the person at the charity who supports you.
They'll have had experience of this - and will give advice, including possibly finding a more suitable match.

The charity will appreciate your volunteering efforts.

My elderly father has very strong opinions and says things that aren’t acceptable, but he’s not going to change now. I just let him say it, don’t react to it and change the subject.
You don’t need to be made to feel uncomfortable so ask your manager to be taken off her and given someone new.

There should also be a volunteering policy and maybe a volunteering handbook giving advice over such situations.

Do not put up with this. Either ask to be paired to someone else or quit.

Thank you to all for your really supportive messages. Honestly I’d never envisaged it as something overly virtuous or commendable...I was really quite looking forward to it at the start and I have the time to do it.

I’m still thinking about what to do. Yes to the idea that I’m some kind of a verbal punching bug...that makes sense, because the comments are just so cutting and out of nowhere. No I shouldn’t have to put up with it, but I struggle with the thought of basically quitting and being ‘another one’ who’s cut her out of their lives.

@Grapefruitcauliflower

There’s a Project Wellbeing Officer but we’ve had no real conversations...very dry guy. I just send him dates of our phone calls etc. He’s replaced a woman who’s now on maternity leave and she really was lovely, had loads of advice on things like boundaries, gift giving at Christmas etc

Reading this in the hope of a diplomatic response for my mean old witch of a granny and her daily phone calls that are a mix of nastiness and racism with a good dose of bitchiness thrown in.

She also seems to have no awareness that when she is horrible I leave or end the call very fast and then hide for a while.

You shouldn’t have to put up with that. I do think some from the older generation feel like they can say more and get away with things because of their age. Knowing that people are unlikely to challenge them in away that they would if they were younger.

I’ve known older people happy to share their bigoted views on same sex marriage and how it shouldn’t be allowed in their opinion. They get away with it because people are reluctant to challenge their elders.

I was at work one day and an elderly guy passed a comment about not knowing where the bank notes had been and he proceeded to say probably the most overly racist comment I think I’ve ever heard. I shan’t repeat it. I think he felt comfortable because I’m a white British woman and I assume he thought it was ‘safe‘ to say if to me.

Well it wasn’t because I told all the staff what a racist bigoted old fart he was and that I was never going to serve him again!!

It's so nice of you to volunteer. And maybe it's hard for us to imagine leading the life this woman leads. But perhaps she could also make more effort to see things from your point of view. Her apparent inability to do so is perhaps part of the mental health issue, I don't know. It still isn't acceptable for her to make assumptions about you based on your background. I would ask her outright the next time she makes a racist comment if she would prefer to speak to a white person in future.

Perhaps there is a reason why she keeps losing people out of her life?

You shouldn't have to put up with racist comments and if you arent happy to ignore or challenge them or they are making you feel bad then ask to be transferred to another person.