Outdated and racist comments telephone befriendee

[Redolent]

Last year I signed up to become a befriender with a charity for older people. I was ‘allocated‘ a 72 year old woman, and we get along quite well - our meet-ups used to consist of an hour long visit, tea and a chat every fortnight. Things have obviously moved to speaking over phone during lockdown.

Our conversations are on the whole cordial and friendly, but she does come out with so many comments that are presumptuous but that I don’t feel I have the space to contest. Rebuking me for on-demand breastfeeding at 6 weeks old (“you’re the boss, she’s the baby!” - she used to be a nurse in the 80s). Telling me off when I told her I’d gone out with friends for a meal and left dd with my husband (“you should be getting a babysitter and doing things together instead of you gallivanting on your own!’) And other comments too which I’ve felt to be racially offensive - asking a couple of times if my husband was upset that we were having a girl (because that’s what people from ‘your culture’ do), and then a few days ago, speaking about crime in the area, saying that people from my community were basically ‘all crooks’!! Her expression.

She’s lonely and has multiple health conditions and I know she really appreciates our calls. For the most part, I like them too. But I just feel like I can’t contest her views for some reason...that I’m there as a listening voice, to keep her company and that’s it. Is that fair, in my role as a volunteer? I really don’t want to argue with her or have any tensions, but it’s galling to hear her speak sometimes. What would you do?

Yes, it probably is, if the op feels her behaviour has compromised her ability to be professional towards her.

I would say something. 72 isn’t a reason for having outdated and racist views and unless there is a health concern which would mean she’s isn’t able to grasp the concept then why wouldn’t you say something? You aren’t doing it to be a punch bag for her views. My Nan is a similar age and I would say something to her if she came out with something offensive and I get that there is a difference as im related to my Nan whereas you aren’t related to this woman but if she respects and values what you bring to her life then I think she would be accepting of you saying something. I don’t think it needs to be an all guns blazing type conversation but if she says something just say that the comment is offensive and is generalising a lot of people on a minority. It’s like saying all taxi drivers are Murderers like the taxi driver who killed people randomly a few years ago or that after the Dr death guy (I can’t remember his name) that all drs are out to kill old people

@QueenArseClangers

Crikey, she’s not really ‘elderly’ (in my book anyway).

Life’s too short to put up with her offensive twaddle, my DM is getting on for 90 and had a stand up row with a neighbour last week because the neighbour was spouting racist shite!

I’m sure another, non racist, person would appreciate your befriending time

This. Anyone who is 72 is not 'elderly' and knows what is racist and unacceptable. (She was only in her 20s when Rock Against Racism started, for instance!) She's probably always been this unpleasant. You're a volunteer, providing a service, and should not have to put up with it. You're very kind not to want to be the next in line of the people who have 'abandoned' her, but there are limits.

Yes, it probably is, if the op feels her behaviour has compromised her ability to be professional towards her.

OP is a kind volunteer. She's not a professional who has a duty of care towards anyone, including racist bigots. She deserves to be treated with the kindness and respect she shows to the lady she has volunteered to befriend. There is nothing 'Tory' about not wanting to receive racist abuse from somebody you are trying to help. What an odd perspective to have. I'm glad I, and many others, don't think like you @RuffleCrow

think your being a bit over sensitive try and focus on subjective issues rather than personal. From what you have said she is not being racist on purpose

Thats appalling! So someone subjected to racist comments is just being oversensitive, and its ok making racist remarks asking as they areng on purpose? There's not a lot of views expressed here that genuinely shock me but this not only shocks but disgusts me.

I don't think that you are a good fit together. People do go more right wing as they age and if their world is small, as it is if you need a telephone befriender, then even more so.

I had to pull my Mother up a few times. We are second generation (non white) immigrants and me and my sister have different non British (one black, one mixed) Fathers. My Mother had fixated on something she read in the Express newspaper and repeated it without thinking. I talked her through it and she realised her mistake. All of her life she'd been accepting of all races and sexual persuasions.

You can challenge people without it being confrontational. The baby comments you have to let go.

I've worked in elderly care and I am friends with different religions. I let the God/Buddha/Waheguru comments ride over me.

I, like a lot of woman will never accept self identification, but to many, we are bigoted.

In regards to race, it's a chance to re-educate.

This isn't to do with age and I wish people would stop spouting ageism. There's another lots of younger people who are racist, homophobic and very bigoted.

Also is the wanting of Sons in your culture a wrong assumption? Or do you fully identify with British culture? That would have been an interesting conversation to have. I have similar with my non British friends, who are Black and Indian.

My view, as someone who has supported the public in roles like this for years....

Use boundaries. That's what they're for.

Most people using these services like it to be all about them, so I make it all a about them. I am well used to just laughing and saying, oh we're not allowed to give out personal info, and then just directing things back to them.

There are a lot of contrary people out there, and also people who've been bowed down by life and some of them like getting it off their chest. They come out with all sorts that I dont agree with. My role is to listen and support, and allow them human connection. Them not knowing how I live my life assists in this.

X

It's great that you are making time for this, OP.

I'm Asian and I would respond to her assumptions.

So if she says people in your culture prefer boy babies, I would just say 'no, that's not true, most [Asian] people are just happy to have a healthy baby, boy or girl, like most other cultures'.

Not sure why you don't feel comfortable with that?

I'd be very interested to hear what the charity has to say about this and if they have any guidelines/advice on it. If your guy isn't any help can you talk to someone else in the charity? Or try asking another organisation that offers a similar service?

I absolutely don’t think you should put up with it. You can’t befriend a bigot who is offending you left, right and centre, that is completely unfair on you. I would tell the charity you cannot be her befriender, and that they should be careful who they pair her with as she is openly racist.

Perhaps someone else would actively like the task of trying to correct her racist views, or be fine telling her that if she doesn’t stop saying ugly things then the conversation will have to end. But it does not have to be your job.

I hope you find someone to befriend who is lovely, it is so generous to spend your free time doing this and it should be a rewarding experience for BOTH of you.

My parents are in their mid 60s so only a few years younger, they wouldn’t ever say such racist things. Equally I’ve encountered people my own age ( mid 30s) who would spout racist bullshit. I don’t think 72 is really old enough to excuse with “different time” excuse. Some people are just racist and prejudiced regardless of age.

You definitely shouldn’t have to put up with it, no one should. I think contacting the charity for guidance is the way to go, and if they’re not supportive then ask to be changed to a different befriendee.

@CustardyCreams

I absolutely don’t think you should put up with it. You can’t befriend a bigot who is offending you left, right and centre, that is completely unfair on you. I would tell the charity you cannot be her befriender, and that they should be careful who they pair her with as she is openly racist.

Perhaps someone else would actively like the task of trying to correct her racist views, or be fine telling her that if she doesn’t stop saying ugly things then the conversation will have to end. But it does not have to be your job.

I hope you find someone to befriend who is lovely, it is so generous to spend your free time doing this and it should be a rewarding experience for BOTH of you.

Everything said here. I don’t normally get involved in discussions on race as I don’t feel in a position to do so, but I can’t believe the excuses for this horrible racist. She’s absolutely not a product of her generation so posters can stop with the ageism too! OP, given the crappy excuses that some posters are coming up with, to excuse this vile individual, I think you might get better support and understanding on the back Mumsnetter’s threads, even if you’re not black but from another minority background.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/black_mumsnetters

My Dad is 72 and been in a care home for a couple years now. It’s not the case that “72 is old” or “72 is still young”, it depends on so many things (eg dementia, brain injuries, stroke, etc).

Befreinders do amazing things for people, but not if you’re just being used as verbal punchbag; you shouldn’t need to put up with that. Speak to your volunteer coordinator, explain the situation and ask for someone else.

The baby-related comments I could probably brushed off, if they were sparse/rare. And maybe it is worth me not sharing about my life as such - although when you’re calling someone regularly, it is natural that there’ll be conversational give and take. Something to think about anyway.

But really, it’s her latest comment about people of my ethnicity being crooks that’s triggered this thread and has me questioning whether I have to put up with these bursts of abrasive/rebuking and racist comments. And it just has me reevaluate the way that she talks to me sometimes. When she’d mentioned a number friends that have cut her out for no reason - just stopped seeing her completely - it also makes me think these aren’t isolated incidents.

Perhaps 72 as ‘elderly’ in my mind really shouldn’t be the case! Maybe it’s more the combination of her age and being relatively immobile.

If she's very elderly (and its a phone contact, not visual ) there is the possibility her memory is going and she either doesn't know or forgot that she's insulting your community. Dementia can be very disinhibiting.

But that doesn't mean you have to put up with it .Just pull her up straight away, every time, and calmly remind her. " "Betty, remember that's my community? Don't talk about us like that. " "That's enough, Betty, I won't listen to you being rude about my people".

See how that works. If she apologises / manages to button her lip fine. Otherwise talk to the organisation and tell them you won't be her befriender any more.

I used to run a charity that provided befriending services to older people. Generationally this can be an issue - older people can have views that are un-PC or downright offensive. And sometimes lonely older people are lonely for a reason - they may lack social skills, be rude or caustic.

But befriending only works if the chemistry is good. You should definitely speak to the charity about it. You should not have to accept rude, racist or offensive comments however lonely the lady you visit. The charity should look at whether they can intervene or if necessary find a different person for you to visit and someone else to visit the lady. They should take responsibility for a 'good match' of volunteer and befriendee.

It could be that she is looking to see how outrageous she can be before you leave. Obviously you shouldn't have to accept this and the racist comments are beyond the pale really. In relation to her telling you what you should do, I would probably let that slide. I work with people who have some quite strange attitudes towards things and the standard phrase I use is "I'm not sure I agree with you there" and then I change the topic. If you want to continue with her, this could be an option. She has probably alienated so many people because of her views and is possibly looking to see whether you will leave too. You don't have to put up with it and are totally reasonable to leave if you wish to do so.

"She is 72, she has to be excused as it was the thinking in her time" Donald Trump is 74, even older. Should we excuse him? Yes, impact is different in terms of scale but behind that scale is an individual whose humanity is eroded everyday. It doesn't matter if its one on one or whatever, it should not be excused

speak to the charity and ask for their guidance, its not right for her to be putting you through this crap

@GingerScallop

"She is 72, she has to be excused as it was the thinking in her time" Donald Trump is 74, even older. Should we excuse him? Yes, impact is different in terms of scale but behind that scale is an individual whose humanity is eroded everyday. It doesn't matter if its one on one or whatever, it should not be excused

Also my DM is 71, she cracked down hard on any unintentional racism from me or my sister. I've heard my parents challenge racist comments from others. Not saying they'd never get it wrong now, but there are no sweeping generalisations. My in-laws are the same, as are older people at work.

Maybe this was more of an excuse for my grandparent's generation, can't see it as one for people my parents age.