To say no to request to clean his house?

[Rose789]

I feel like a bitch and I’m awake at 1am worrying about it.
My brother and sil have 3 kids. Between ages of 4-10 (so all in school)
Brother works full time sil works part time (3 days a week)
Kids spend every Saturday night at their grandparents house.
Sil has been signed off for work for depression and is struggling and finding it difficult to get the motivation to do anything.
I text sil and told her if she ever needed any support or someone to listen I’m here for her.
Spoke to my brother told him if there was anything I can do to help let me know e.g if they wanted me to have the kids overnight or if they got stuck with the school run.

He’s messaged today saying what would be the most helpful is if I could go round and clean the house as it’s a bomb site and sil isn’t doing any housework and he hasn’t got time with kids.
I’ve said no for several reasons

1. I have my own house to clean. Yes it’s hard trying to clean around kids I understand that. But that’s the same for everyone. The oldest 2 are more then old enough to start helping in the house but they have no chores at all. They will eat sweets and just drop the wrapper on the floor. Have a drink and the cup just gets put anywhere.

2. My dad has a lot of health issues. As a result I spend at least one day and one evening a week cleaning his house doing his washing making meals, getting shopping. My brother occasionally visits and doesn’t help at all.

3. I was ill at the start of the year and spent a lot of time in hospital. Dh managed to clean the house, look after the kids and visit me, and work full time. Brother and sil picked up dd from school on one day. No other help- or offers to help.

4. the kids are at their grandparents every single Saturday night. Blitz the place when they are gone if you can’t do it when they are there.
   I would kill for a night off every single week.

I know my reasons are valid. But I do also feel awful for sil I have been in a similar position where everything was just too much of an effort even getting out of bed. While the mess and dishes and washing piled up around me. It’s an awful place to be and it might help her if the house is clean and tidy and she doesn’t need to worry about it. But she has a husband who is just as capable as she is at stepping up and doing the cleaning.
I’m such a people pleaser I’m really struggling to stick to my guns and refuse to help.
I’m not being unreasonable am I?

You said anything and he wanted cleaning. I would do it. I've helped friends and family clean and they've helped me. I get that its unpleasant and he should have kept on top of it but I would imagine it would help your SIL feel better

I would offer to help your brother sort out/pay for/supervise/babysit during a one-off big clean by a professional. They would blast through it & I'm sure it would really help your SIL to be in a clear environment.

@Chimchar will she feel satisfied? Given that she already does that in her own house and her father’s house? Why would cleaning a third house give her satisfaction? So that her brother, who never helps their father, can relax in his clean and tidy house on a Saturday night while his kids are at their grandparents? Never mind the OP running herself ragged!

@justanotherneighinparadise

Don't you think it might be important for him to prioritise spending time with his kids when their mum is poorly?

Omg I’ve heard it all now!!!!! Then let the husband and children bond whilst cleaning up the house! Fucking hell ive never heard such a large collection of pathetic excuses to not clean up your own shit.

I don't understand you at all.

Genuinely, I can't comprehend where you're coming from that when a family member is unwell, you wouldn't support them in the best way for them rather than in a way which you deemed acceptable.

When my brother was widowed last year, I travelled to another country to support him and his kids. I did all their cleaning so they could sit and watch TV together or take the dogs for a walk without a thought. It wouldn't cross my mind not to.

We will never agree on this because we are poles apart.

Would you offer to HELP your SIL clean up. If she's feeling that low, maybe some adult company and an hour jointly doing something that has a satisfying objective, followed by a treat as a reward might be of more real use.

@CaptainBrickbeard

So tearstainedbakes you think it’s reasonable that the OP already gives up one day and one evening a week to clean, cook and shop for their father while her brother has never done anything at all to help and she should now clean her brother’s house because his wife is depressed?

If he had always helped with the father, if he had helped OP when she was in hospital and it was just that now his wife is ill he is overwhelmed then fair enough. But he’s never helped anyone else struggling with their housework so why is he now entitled to have the OP take on a third house to clean (in addition to the two she is already responsible for!) even though he has a child free night every week and could absolutely clean his own house then?

If she offered, yes! If I offer help it's not conditional.

But clearly there are people who feel very different about this. I don't understand that but I accept it.

Her brother isn't widowed though @tearstainedbakes. His wife is depressed. He has 3 school aged children ho go to his parents every Saturday night. He has plenty of time to keep his house clean and tidy but he chooses not to.

Why do women on MN set such low bars for men? It's baffling.

@tearstainedbakes the brother doesn’t help any other family members though. It’s not a reciprocal relationship. He is happy for his sister to do all the cleaning, cooking and shopping for their father. The OP says he has never helped. She also says when she was in hospital, he didn’t help her. She is willing to help him, but not by cleaning his entire house. Given that she already does this for their father, I can’t comprehend how on Earth you think she should do it for her brother too despite the fact t he has never done it for anyone else in the family.

@MartiniDry

Tearstainedbakes, if there are a lot of assumptions on here they're on the basis of sex, not gender.

I knew someone would pick up on that but I won't go into the reason I wrote gender not sex as that isn't what this thread is about

And she is willing to help him! In other ways - why does it have to be cleaning his house?

I see your point but I also agree that you did offer. If you only meant help with certain things, you should have been a bit more clear.

People offer to do cleaning/ laundry etc for parents of newborns sometimes so it's not completely unheard of.

When my brother was widowed last year, I travelled to another country to support him and his kids. I did all their cleaning so they could sit and watch TV together or take the dogs for a walk without a thought. It wouldn't cross my mind not to.
And I'm sure the op would too if it was the only thing she was doing. Unfortunately she has her job, her own kids, her own house and her father's house to do at the same time, she's not expected to look after her brother in a bubble like you were.

YANBU - tell him to drop the kids over to you between 1-4 so that he can clean without them in the way.

You don’t have to do anything you don’t want to... but then you have to stop going around feeling good about yourself (it sounds like you’re trotting our the “people pleaser“ as a badge of honour, not a self criticism) by saying you’ll do, “anything to help” - because you don’t.

Yeah, you could watch the kids whilst he cleans. But maybe, whilst his family is in crisis, he needs to spend time with the kids - and they need that too.

I’d do it - but only on the basis that (a) the kids joined in and (b) we used it as an opportunity to create a basic chores list for the kids.

[quote CaptainBrickbeard]@tearstainedbakes the brother doesn’t help any other family members though. It’s not a reciprocal relationship. He is happy for his sister to do all the cleaning, cooking and shopping for their father. The OP says he has never helped. She also says when she was in hospital, he didn’t help her. She is willing to help him, but not by cleaning his entire house. Given that she already does this for their father, I can’t comprehend how on Earth you think she should do it for her brother too despite the fact t he has never done it for anyone else in the family.[/quote]
She said her brother did help her, he just didn't clean. He took the kids out and stuff.

Offering to clean? Heck no!

Look after their kids while he does it, or employ a cleaner.

I remember having a meltdown about the mess in our playroom and my sister, bless her, came round and blitzed it. Sometimes you need that help to get back to square one.

However, the op offered to have the dc overnight which would make the tidying so much easier.

I'm amazed anyone would prefer to look after three kids than clean a house though.

"Let me know if you need anything" is not the same as "I'm prepared to do anything."

YANBU, he's a cheeky twat.

cocomarine is she allowed to feel good about herself on the basis that she already cares for their father? I’d say she comes across as a very helpful and considerate person. But she isn’t prepared to be a complete doormat - at some point she dares to set a boundary. I don’t think that should stop her feeling good about herself.

@CaptainBrickbeard she asked her brother if there was anything she could do? She didn't mean that, she had a list in her head that she would do, she didn't convey that.

Empty offer, she didn't mean anything, she meant look after kids or do a school run.

Disingenuous to the extreme.

@Clymene

Her brother isn't widowed though *@tearstainedbakes*. His wife is depressed. He has 3 school aged children ho go to his parents every Saturday night. He has plenty of time to keep his house clean and tidy but he chooses not to.

Why do women on MN set such low bars for men? It's baffling.

I'd do it if the roles were reversed, if it were my sister who was widowed.

I offered to go when my SIL was unwell but they knew I could only afford one air fare and wanted me when she had died.

Absolutely nothing to do with whether he's male or not, and I was there when he needed for what he needed.

@peboh he took the kids once, as OP is offering to do for him now. That’s fair. He didn’t clean her house, why does he expect her to clean his? (And their father’s!)

Yabvvvu OP, why the heck would you offer to help but then say no! Actions speak louder than words and you have just made yourself look like you were just saying it to for the sake of saying it...you didn't really mean it did you!

Yabu, you offered and he's asked for what he needs help woth.

Depression is long term, not a short stay in hospital so it will be draining over time.

I get you might be jealous and want time off but you aren't "more deserving". He isn't obliged to spend time cleaning when he doesnt have his children. It's probably the only time he has when he isn't keeping his head above water coping with work, kids, wife etc.

I think it's unfair to offer support then duck out saying the support he wants isn't what you had in mind. Do a quick 30 mins then climb down from your offer. But don't tell him you don't think the help he has asked for isn't what you want to do otherwise it sounds a bit like an empty virtue signalling offer.

[quote CaptainBrickbeard]@tearstainedbakes the brother doesn’t help any other family members though. It’s not a reciprocal relationship. He is happy for his sister to do all the cleaning, cooking and shopping for their father. The OP says he has never helped. She also says when she was in hospital, he didn’t help her. She is willing to help him, but not by cleaning his entire house. Given that she already does this for their father, I can’t comprehend how on Earth you think she should do it for her brother too despite the fact t he has never done it for anyone else in the family.[/quote]
Again, poles apart, the help I offer isn't based in reciprocity.

Wouldn't cross my mind to only offer support if someone else was doing what I deemed to be their fair share.