Fight with neighbour - WWYD

[FrenchtoEnglish]

I live in rural France. I have a neighbour who I've got on well with for years. I go to his house once a week for an art class. We have the same sense of humour, have always got on very well. I look after his cat when he goes away. I let him borrow my car for two weeks when he crashed his.

Two weeks ago I had my house painted. I used the same painter as he'd used. I paid 650 (three-storey house). He paid a grand (two-storey house). I negotiated. This as just a bit of back story.

Anyway, the painters (originally from the travelling community, settled in France with French-registered business - this becomes relevant later on) painted my house bright yellow (I'd asked for ochre). It's so bright, you need sunglasses to fucking look at it. I started panicking and they said: "Don't worry, when we put the second coat on, the colour will darken). OK.

Next day, the boss turned up and said he wanted paying. What about the second coat? No, no, no it was a "monocouche". A single coat. I started arguing with him. He wouldn't budge, so I went to get my neighbour for help. I thought I was being taken advantage of as a woman living on her own. The neighbour ended up agreeing with the painters. I paid. The boss guy said: "Thank you, pretty blonde" and my neighbour thought this was hilarious. That's the back story. I just accept that I have to live in an eyesore until I can afford to have in painted again.

Right.

Last week, I was in supermarket and there was a MASSIVE fight between a man (from the travelling community) and the manager of the supermarket. This was at the checkout. The manager was screaming. SCREAMING. And the customer was just standing there. The manager then POKED him in the face. Hard.

I decided to step in. I said: "Excuse me, sir. But, you just physically assaulted a customer". He then went mental at me and said if I didn't like it I could "go home too". I understood that he meant "go back to UK". When I asked for clarification, he said "go back to your house" and I could go and see the police if I wanted. So, I did. And I made a complaint to the headquarters and I got a written apology (of sorts - it said I'd misinterpreted what he'd said - but even if he'd told me to "go back to your house", it's still not great!).

Anyway, I mentioned this on FB later that day, I was pretty shaken. Especially because I'd noticed one of the dads at the school where my daughter goes really laughing when the guy told me to go home. I'm bilingual but have an English accent. It was obvious what the manager meant, he just back-tracked pretty well.

God, this is long...

Anyway, my neighbour commented on the FB post that he found this surprising because I was someone who "didn't like "gypsies" and treated them badly". He later said, "You told me that you saw some English people at the bank shouting in English and you didn't like it. I wonder why you didn't call the gendarmes on them?"

So, he's taken offence. Or thinks I'm a xenophobe or racist or something. It wasn't an anti-French post. It was an "I'm so cross at the guy in the supermarket" post.

I'm not very good at intervening when I see things. I get a weird adrenaline rush and I usually cry. So, it took a lot of courage for me to do. I see a lot of English people around here not speaking French and I don't think I would dare say anything to them. But, this was someone being prodded in the face. It's different.

I took the post down and wrote to him privately asking what was up. No response although he'd seen the message. I waited and then said "Yo! Are we still friends?" and he replied, "I guess so".

I'm just upset and feeling vulnerable. He's my only sodding neighbour here. WWYD? I want to be strong and just get over it, but I feel like he's really misunderstood me!

Yeah, I checked with the town hall (just opposite my house) and the mayor had no problem with it. That's why I was worried. All the buildings are within so many metres of the church which is listed and so we have to be careful. He's been over to check since and it's OK.

I was virtue-signalling on my own page. I recognised it for what it was afterwards. I never usually write dramatic stuff on my page, it's always cat pics or seaside pics. I don't know what got into me.

It was clear what he meant. I'm a literary translator. He said, "Si vous ne l'aimez pas, vous n'avez qu'à rentrer chez vous, vous aussi !" That''s not a natural thing to say. He was making a reference to the first man (not French) and then me (not French). He was saying we could both "go home". You'd tell someone to leave or to not shop there anymore. Who tells someone to go back to their house? When challenged he changed it to, "Vous pouvez rentrer à la maison" because he KNEW what he said could get him in trouble. I've been told to "rentrer chez moi" when I've had fall outs with drivers on the road. They're not telling me to go back to my house. As soon as they hear my accent, it seems like an easy thing to say. I'm bilingual. The police said it was clear what he meant.

And I'm in no way assuming it's better anywhere else. It doesn't make it any easier when you're on the receiving end of it. I find it hard to accept that because I've chosen to live in France, I can never voice another opinion again.

I actually really like the colour, but this is exactly why you need to be there when traders start and check their colour, have a small sample on the house to see what it’s like.

I don’t think you should have dragged your neighbour into the argument; it’s not his fight and it will have been awkward for him, even more so as he’d dealt with them before.

I also don’t think you should have involved yourself in the supermarket; that was really none of your business and you weren’t doing a good deed.

I wouldn't give him another thought or be friends with him. I think people think that women living on their own (with or without children) are easy targets and they can say what they want. I think your house colour will fade.

Op, I live in rural France too, and things can get awkward in the expat community - if your French is ok why don't you try to make French friends? With mothers of your dd's friends maybe?

In relation to the paint job cost, to work out what is fair you can find out how much the crane cost to hire from a machine hire shop plus add on a day rate for the manhours. IME a day rate of a non French person will vary from 100 to 250 euro per day - for a paint job like that I'd be thinking 200 a day. So if he did it in a day and you find out the crane hire cost that is your fair figure, in my opinion

Next time don't rely on a painter or anyone else to do a colour match - provide the paint.

Your neighbour - nothing you have done is "wrong". It has highlighted that your friendship with your neighbour is not genuine. He has been really rude to you. A genuine friend would not be rude to you. In fact, a nice person wouldn't be rude to you - so taking this to its logical conclusion you have misjudged your neighbour's character. This isn't a reason to fall out with him, I would try to get on with him, but see him as a neighbour to be civil to, not a friend. The blonde thing, that he laughed, I would have found it hard to genuinely respect him much after that, personally!

Re the behaviour of the French manager, where you are now is the same as anywhere, there are nice French locals and not nice French locals, racist ones and not racist ones - it is the same anywhere.

The comment "go home" - some French locals will think that, some won't, some will judge only certain English people depending on their behaviour. If you have attempted to learn the language and understand and respect the culture then you should find local respect and be able to find French people to be friends with.

A different way to look at this is that you were upset because of the manager's behaviour, nowt to do with him being French. (What was the manager angry about, with the other man, just out of interest?)

The yellow is bright but at least it looks reasonably well done?! I think the door needs to be painted a bright turquoise now... (just joking)

Time to make new friends

@emilyfrost

I think you're right about getting the neighbour involved. I shouldn't have done it.

However, if I see people being physically assaulted again in the future, I hope I do have the courage again to say something. Or film it. Or do something. I don't think I'd get involved in a street fight, but this was a supermarket manager with lots of witnesses. I don't think people can be allowed to get away with stuff like that. There's no way he's have poked a big French farmer in the face.

PS being a literary translator sounds fun! What sort of things do you translate? How did you fall into that?

I do think you need to raise your standards when it comes to friends.

No one has said "rentrer chez vous" to me so far. The worst I have had on roads is the middle finger or them throwing their hands into the air in dismay at my driving. Both of which were possibly fair responses to my terrible driving.

I came back fuming from the local post office and asked on the local Facebook page why la poste didn’t sell stamps any more (they refused to sell me any) and I got a right pasting.
Now I have to go to the next town (where the post office quite happily sell me 1.40 euro stamps) and know not to post anything critical on social media!

@resinoiernd Yeah, the neighbour IS French.

I'd say I have about 3 good French friends locally. And a lot of French acquaintances. I'm on the PTA, I interpret for the mayor, I run a charity shop in the village, I help organise an annual children's book fair. I translate French novels. I volunteer for a French education film production company and I'm just about to go on a course on domestic violence which is being run in the next town. I really have tried my hardest to fit in. I've even sent my kid to bilingual French/Breton school in the hope that she'll be more accepted later down the line.

A lot of British expats use the charity shop. So, I think it's seen as "the English shop" even though everything is written in French and Breton. There's not much I can do about that. I have 3 close British friends here.

It really isn't an anti-French thing. I love France. I've been here 18 years. I think I sometimes just get a bit frustrated that I'm an outsider. I've been here nearly half my life.

@resinoiernd I got lucky. I taught air traffic controllers in Paris for ten years and did a little translation in my spare time for a friend who ran a video games company. I answered an ad to translate a book and it all started there. The book got picked up and published by a big US publisher and then the books just kept coming. It was lucky break really.

@LacroixstOuen My post office doesn't sell stamps either. The tabac does. Makes sense! :-) You're right about social media! I so wish I'd hadn't posted anything!

Goodness that's awful. I think you are triggered by the possibility he doesn't like you anymore/has ill feelings/doesn't want to be friends. I know this stuff is hard.

I think in situations like this, what you did is far more important than the friendship. Sticking up for someone who is being abused/harassed is far more important than a friendship with a neighbour. Hold your head up high, you did the right thing!

The tabac insists its 1.30 for international post, so can’t get them there either!

Ah i see - I assumed your neighbour was French!

I didn't see your post as anti French at all. It sounds like you misjudged your neighbour and I wouldn't give it a second thought, just move on and aim to get on ok with him. You have English friends and French friends, it sounds fine.

In terms of acceptance, some people will accept you and some won't I wouldn't worry about it.

I personally don't think you need to try hard to fit in, or to send your dd to a particular school. I just think you need to be aware of the local culture and respectful of it, not bend over backwards. Do you think you are trying too hard?

How did you start doing the translating work? Are you completely bilingual, ie fluent in French in every respect, your French vocab as wide as your English vocab? I am just interested, no relevance to thread!

I see you answered the q about the translation, posts crossed!

Also I do think some people take advantage of women on their own. We had an incident in our neighbourhood where an older neighbour didn't like something 4 people on the street were doing (something so normal and happens on every street) and the older neighbour respectfully asked the family with Mum and Dad to stop and screamed at the two single parents on the street, making disgusting remarks, name calling etc. As a male friend always tells me, it's what they think they can get away with.

Oh the grammar police is out, feeling better Hingeandbracket?

He was saying we could both "go home"

as "home" is your house in France, there's nothing remotely racist about it!

@resinoiernd I am a bit of a try-hard ;-)

I'd say I was fluent, but make the odd grammatical mistake. I can say anything I want to in French, but sometimes have to have a little think about it. Especially post-lockdown. My DD and I came out of lockdown only being able to speak in nursery rhymes and Ben and Holly.

I have to "search" for my vocab a little more than I'd like to. I understand everything written or that I hear on the radio, but I don't have the same "slang" or wouldn't understand some of the cultural references. If someone quoted a famous line from a film or a song lyric, I wouldn't always get it.

I'm a bit lazy. I read English novels in my spare time, speak to my DD only in English and have Netflix in English. I use MN and social media in English. But, I translate all day and so can't be arsed to read in French in the evenings. I got my degree in French twenty years ago.

The novels I translate tend to be genre fiction (romance, thrillers, historical fiction) and I'm currently working on some visual novels (apps) which are pretty basic (vampire romance!). I think my French was better when I was teaching. I don't get as much chance to speak it as I used to. I'll have to find some more supermarket managers to fight with or start on the neighbours across the road (their dog's been getting on my wick!). ;-)

As pp said, it will mellow, is great for the style of house and best of all I'd bet DD loves it - growing up in 'the sunburst house' - right on!

@FrankieStein402 Oh, DD thinks it's amazing! She's always been a bit on the flashy side that one. ;-)

@SantaClaritaDiet We're just arguing semantics here. I know what the intentions were behind his words. He knew I knew. Everyone around us knew. The police knew. The guy I spoke to at the headquarters of the supermarket knew. He got out of it quite cleverly, that's all. But let's say he wasn't a xenophobe, for argument's sake... is it acceptable for the manager of a supermarket to tell a customer to "go back to her house" when she has a complaint? Or, do you think there might be a beter way of dealing with it?

That a great result for one coat.
Gotta paint the door another vibrant colour to finish it. It be fab.
Strong Pink, Red, Green or blue.

Maybe you should "go back home" 😂 I lived in rural France for a few years and am bilingual. Sure, the food and landscapes were great, but I missed living somewhere that wasn't....the 1960s, in terms of stuff to do and attitudes. "Jolie blonde", "rentrez chez vous", the quiet undertone of never being able to express an opinion despite living and paying taxes there... who has time for this shit? I remember it well.
Plus based on my (extensive, snort) experience of French men, you might not be romantically interested but your neighbour might. Platonic friendships were something I found much less common compared to the UK. Maybe there's an element of that somewhere? I'm not sure why else he would have got his knickers in such a twist over that.
YANBU.

[quote FrenchtoEnglish]@SantaClaritaDiet We're just arguing semantics here. I know what the intentions were behind his words. He knew I knew. Everyone around us knew. The police knew. The guy I spoke to at the headquarters of the supermarket knew. He got out of it quite cleverly, that's all. But let's say he wasn't a xenophobe, for argument's sake... is it acceptable for the manager of a supermarket to tell a customer to "go back to her house" when she has a complaint? Or, do you think there might be a beter way of dealing with it?[/quote]
Not really, we are arguing about the cause of the argument!

You decided to butt in, and you didn't like being told off. I get that.
I have asked my French BIL - my French is not better than my English so I sometimes miss out on a few things. It seems to irk the grammar police like the poster above
Apparently telling you to go back to your country would have been articulated a lot differently, even staying polite. But anyway.

You never told her what the argument was about and how it was of any of your business? So the manager of your local supermarket starts randomly screaming at customers when he doesn't like their face? Is that likely?

the quiet undertone of never being able to express an opinion despite living and paying taxes there... who has time for this shit? I remember it well.

As a foreigner in England, that's exactly my experience here. Being criticised on a forum for my bad English is nothing compared to the attitude of people in real life.