DD has never mixed with another child :(

[youremywonderwall]

DD is 8 months old.

She was born just before lockdown.

I feel really sad that she’s never played or mixed in close contact with another baby her age.

I don’t have any friends that have children and her cousins are all much older than her (10+) and of course we’ve all been distancing.

I have a lovely group of antenatal friends but we all made the decision to distance our babies when we met up(which at the minute we can’t do as there are 8 of us)

We go to a regular baby music class so she gets to see other babies but she’s never actually gotten close.

I worry about how this might affect her immune system, not mixing and picking up bugs from other babies.

She’s registered at a nursery but won’t be staring until March 2021 when I go back to work.

How much is this going to affect her? :(

I mean sure, babies might like seeing other babies or think it's interesting, but that doesn't mean it's necessary. We're not talking about toddlers here.

@Pemba

Is this your field Carbuncle?

I'm still not sure if I agree. After all in the past before 'mum and baby groups' etc. were a thing, babies would just grow up within their family. There were interactions with mum and dad and other family members, there may have been older siblings. Meeting other babies may not have occurred. They all turned out fine.

If the child was over, say, 18 months I would be a bit more concerned but in the meantime I would think all will be fine. And there's currently good reason for not mixing of course.

Yes it is my field - or my former field - I'm a psychologist and I worked in the area of child development for quite a while. Even if mum and baby groups weren't a thing in the past, it was still common for mums to hang out with each other and for babies to mix - in fact I would say it was more common in the past for families on the same street to visit each other, or for sisters to raise their babies together, for example. If anything it's more common now for families to have less day to day contact with others, hence the rise of baby groups to fill that gap.

Again I find it very odd that people are trying to argue that there's no need for children to mix with each other - I can't imagine that argument being made in normal times. Maybe it would have been, and people just genuinely at not aware of the need of people of all ages to interact with others?

@dreamingbohemian

in normal times, if a parent said to a health visitor that their baby had had no direct contact with another baby for the entire 8 months of their life, the hv would be concerned that the parent was depressed, or had debilitating anxiety or social problems.

I'm sorry but that's ridiculous. Not everyone knows other people with babies or has access to baby activities. This guilt-tripping of parents really needs to stop. Babies need their parents, they don't need other babies when they're that tiny.

There's no guilt-tripping. The fact that people don't have access to other babies doesn't change the fact that interacting with other babies does benefit development. Why do you think previous governments spent enormous sums of money setting up SureStart centres? There is a very very strong evidence base showing that children that have early interaction, stimulation and learning, with other children, have better outcomes. It also shows that children who are kept at home and who don't have that interaction and variety don't do as well. That's not controversial or surprising, it's almost so obvious I'm surprised people are questioning it

[quote TheDailyCarbuncle]@unmarkedbythat - in normal times, if a parent said to a health visitor that their baby had had no direct contact with another baby for the entire 8 months of their life, the hv would be concerned that the parent was depressed, or had debilitating anxiety or social problems. Part of the remit of SureStart centres is to ensure that both parents and babies are having social contact from a young age, that children are playing and interacting. Prior to covid, no one would have ever considered a baby having no contact with other babies to be of no concern at all - at the very least a parent would have been encouraged to try to allow their baby to interact with other babies. It surprises me that I have to explain this at all tbh - what has suddenly caused people to forget that human interaction is important???[/quote]
I have three children (oldest 14, youngest 5) and at none of their 9 month assessments was I asked about attending baby groups or Sure Start Centres or whether my babies had had any contact with other babies. I don't think there is anything in the ASQ-3 for 9 month olds that refers to their social contact or interaction with other babies. I'm pretty sure my youngest was at least 9 months old before he had contact with another baby, because I didn't feel any need to attend baby groups.

if a parent said to a health visitor that their baby had had no direct contact with another baby for the entire 8 months of their life, the hv would be concerned that the parent was depressed, or had debilitating anxiety or social problems

Really? If said parent was not isolated and had plenty of social contact with other adults, a HV would assume there was a major problem just because they didn't attend baby groups and Sure Start centres?

It surprises me that I have to explain this at all tbh - what has suddenly caused people to forget that human interaction is important???

It surprises me that you think this would be the only source of human interaction at all.

A quick google suggests the advice is not that you must take your baby to groups and not doing so is a concern- far from it. The advice is that interaction with other babies is not necessary for social development at that age and if anything it's more for the parent.

www.bounty.com/baby-0-to-12-months/development/baby-socialising-with-other-babies : "In order to be social with other babies, does my baby need to be around other babies regularly?
When they’re very young, babies don’t need to be around other babies for socialisation. Don’t feel your little one needs to have regular play dates with babies their own age to help them develop social skills."

It is fine to believe it is of benefit to babies to be around other babies, not so fine to pretend that it would be treated as a serious concern pre covid.

Why do you think previous governments spent enormous sums of money setting up SureStart centres?

They did not do it on the basis that babies under the age of 9 months need social contact with other babies.

There is a very very strong evidence base showing that children that have early interaction, stimulation and learning, with other children, have better outcomes. It also shows that children who are kept at home and who don't have that interaction and variety don't do as well

Source?

At eight months, they don’t care about other babies or children. They really don’t.

I've had the same concerns. My 10m old has just had her first nursery session. She had a whale of a time apparently, and was very interested in all the activities and the 4 other babies in the room.

I think by the time March rolls around your LO will be absolutely fine.

It takes aaaages before children play with each other. Don’t worry about this.

I worried exactly the same thing when mine was your little ones age, she couldn't go to nursery or playgroups due to logistical problems until she was 13 months (about the same age as yours will be) and she's now a thriving friendly (most of the time:) 3 . 4 year old.

She'll be fine socially and get ready for a year long snotty nose when she starts nursey :)

Honestly at eight months old this is normal, and babies don’t play together at that age, they basically just are together, but kind of independent, and they are like that till about two.

My daughter started going to a play group at two, for socialisation, my child minder took her, as she was the only child she cared for. Until then I don’t think she had met another child her age, didn’t even occur to me to be honest.

She never struggled with friends at school, uni or now work, so I don’t think it’s an issue.

@Pemba

Is this your field Carbuncle?

I'm still not sure if I agree. After all in the past before 'mum and baby groups' etc. were a thing, babies would just grow up within their family. There were interactions with mum and dad and other family members, there may have been older siblings. Meeting other babies may not have occurred. They all turned out fine.

If the child was over, say, 18 months I would be a bit more concerned but in the meantime I would think all will be fine. And there's currently good reason for not mixing of course.

This with bells on. A HV might express concern for a mother that wasn’t leaving the house or getting any social interaction, but it would be concern for the parent, not the child.

Even then the parent’s social interaction doesn’t have to be at a baby group or with other parents. It’s more isolating yourself from everyone can be a symptom of depression.

At this age it really isn’t going to do your baby any harm.

@August20

She will be just fine. I used to work with very rural children (Australian outback). Some of them didn't mix outside their families for months at a time even as older children!

Her immune system will have plenty to cope with just from crawling round the floor, interacting with adults, and putting things in her mouth.

I am also curious how distanced you really are at meet-ups/music class? Many illnesses can spread over several metres. Measles for example can be caught hours after the infected person has left the room. So your DD will have plenty of immune challenges and socially will be ok too.

Wow what an amazing life....The deep Outback is so huge..... An online friend lives there , and her nearest shop is 30 miles away.

Life must be hard out there...and families must be very self reliant out of need.

It looked idyllic to me with my London childhood... Riding horses to school.. thousands of acres to roam in with never a vehicle in sight..
Wonderful.

There was a very good TV programme about a Victorian family {19th Cent} and the elder daughter was killed by a falling tree.....She was my Heroine, and I wept as did mum as her siblings cried

''Oh don't die, Ju Ju''.......

Not sure what that series was.

@DuckEatDuckWorld

There is a very very strong evidence base showing that children that have early interaction, stimulation and learning, with other children, have better outcomes. It also shows that children who are kept at home and who don't have that interaction and variety don't do as well

Source?

A source would be literally every single developmental psychology text book ever written, but if you want something more specific, here's a selection this book, Early social cognition: Understanding others in the first months of life is a good source.

As I say, it really surprises me that people seem to be unaware that children learn from doing and that interacting with other babies is a part of normal, healthy development. I wouldn't have thought that was an unknown fact or that people would require proof to understand it.

@unmarkedbythat

Why do you think previous governments spent enormous sums of money setting up SureStart centres?

They did not do it on the basis that babies under the age of 9 months need social contact with other babies.

SureStart centres were mainly set up as a source of early childhood surveillance, but one of the driving forces of how they were run was the understanding that encouraging play and interaction between children at an early age improved development. That's just a fact, I'm not making it up.

This is a big question and is one that needs some research.

I'm also aware that Scotland has exempted under-11s from distancing which is a lot more human than the Westminster approach.

I did think playgroups could go ahead - have I got that wrong?

Have you joined the PEANUT app? My friend highly rates it as having helped her make many friends in a new village and a new baby

I'm sure it will be fine but I completely understand why you feel weird about it. I would too. Weird, and a bit sad.

I would start hanging around local playparks or something just to see if I could find someone. At 8 months can you sit up in a baby swing in the park? I can't remember.

It's unlikely to cause your baby any long term damage but it's not as unimportant as other posters make it out to be. There is no way anyone would be telling you it was fine if it was something you chose to do, rather than something that imposed on you. The knock-on effect of restrictions on children is being totally ignored and downplayed. Next year there'll be endless hand-wringing articles about it, saying it wasn't foreseen, it's a terrible tragedy etc. It's so fucking predictable.

The OP is taking her daughter to baby groups and attending meet-ups. They’re just socially distanced. Her daughter is seeing any observing other babies - she just isn’t playing with them. But babies don’t play ‘with’ one another as such. So that is why people are saying it’s fine. And it is generally accepted that a strong bond with parents is the most important thing for a child the OP’s daughter’s age. There is very little else the OP can do.

Babies really get little or no benefit from socialising with each other at this age; they simply don't have the concept of playing with each other. If anything they get more benefit from older children and adults who can adapt their interaction to suit the baby. The main point of parent and baby groups is really for the benefit of the parents.

I'm the same OP but like previous posters have said, I've decided not to worry about it I think it's more about me than DS as he's fine and perfectly happy. He grins at other babies but has no desire to actually play with them or anything.

He can't mingle too much as he potentially has an underlying condition so puts him at higher risk. I do babyclub on cbeebies with him so he can see other babies, and there's another baby sensory on youtube that features other babies. I know it's not the same, but I figure better than nothing!

TheDailyCarbuncle
ureStart centres were mainly set up as a source of early childhood surveillance, but one of the driving forces of how they were run was the understanding that encouraging play and interaction between children at an early age improved development. That's just a fact, I'm not making it up.

No one has said otherwise. What I have said is that they were not set up to ensure babies under the age of 9 months played with one another, and there is no evidence at all to support babies having the opportunity to play alongside/ socialise with other babies is necessary, and that not taking babies of 9 months and under to groups would not be seen as a concern. These are facts. I am not making them up.

it really surprises me that people seem to be unaware that children learn from doing and that interacting with other babies is a part of normal, healthy development. I wouldn't have thought that was an unknown fact or that people would require proof to understand it

As many people have said, young babies usually don't interact with or show any interest in other babies whatsoever. Mine certainly didn't. So it shouldn't really be surprising. My youngest is almost one, so hasn't had much interpersonal interaction outside the house. He has two older siblings though. I'm not sure why him ignoring other babies at a playgroup would benefit him any further though.

A source would be literally every single developmental psychology text book ever written, but if you want something more specific, here's a selection this book, Early social cognition: Understanding others in the first months of life is a good source.

I can't really read a whole book right now... None of the chapter headings seem to suggest any of it is related to the importance specifically of baby/baby interaction though...?

@DuckEatDuckWorld

A source would be literally every single developmental psychology text book ever written, but if you want something more specific, here's a selection this book, Early social cognition: Understanding others in the first months of life is a good source.

I can't really read a whole book right now... None of the chapter headings seem to suggest any of it is related to the importance specifically of baby/baby interaction though...?

You asked for a source, I gave you source. I don't know what you expect me to do - write it all out for you? It's up to you if read it or not. What I'm saying - that children need interaction with other children, even from a very young age - isn't at all controversial so I'm genuinely baffled at the 'prove it' bollocks. Surely you're at least somewhat aware of how child development works?