Potentially toxic in-laws?

[MazMcG]

So, I used to have a very healthy relationship with my soon to be in-laws. Until recently when my partner and I temporarily moved in with them as our house is being renovated. We have a 2 month old son together, and my partners parents are very helpful with him, and like to help out which is wonderful!

However, there have been some worrying comments made about both myself and my partner since the baby was born. For the first 10 days of my sons life I was suffering very badly with anxiety and felt extremely uncomfortable with other people holding him. I forced myself to allow his grandparents to hold him, as I didn't think it was fair to stop them, especially given that we're staying with them. However, his sister and her husband came up a few times to visit, and I allowed them to hold the baby once they sanitized their hands, and put masks on due to the pandemic. Then one day his sister was leaning over the baby with no mask on and was about to lift him when I asked her to put her mask on. After this I told his mother that I was no longer comfortable with his sister holding the baby due to the pandemic, and that when they visited it would only be people in the household that would hold him. She stormed out of the room and didn't speak to me for the rest of the evening. Then the next day my son was brought into the hospital due to jaundice and kept overnight, when we got home his mother was still not speaking to me, and I kept my distance from her. My partner was downstairs with them when an argument erupted, which resulted in my partners mother telling her husband "I told you not to get too close to the baby because we'll probably never see him", this was clearly due to my anxiety and the fact that I was quite clingy with my son (not that I ever stopped them holding him". I thought that this was a very hurtful comment to make, as I never considered stopping them from seeing their grandson, I had no reason to! Despite the fact that I wasn't involved in the argument, the next morning his mother started offering everyone toast, buns, and tea, apart from me for some reason.

Recently my partners mother made a comment to me about our dog being more important to him than his own son (because he likes to have the dog around, despite how they feel about animals and babies living in the same house).

Another situation was when my partners mother bought our son a sleeping bag and told us to use it, when I explained that we preferred the swaddle as it helps him sleep really well, she stormed out into the kitchen and began giving off to her husband about me not wanting to use the sleeping bag she got us.

The worst situation happened a few weeks ago when my partner began to struggle with his mental health. I tried to talk to his parents about how he was feeling and they said he needs to start looking at the positives in his life to help him feel better, when I explained that this isn't how depression works, they didn't seem to comprehend what I was trying to say, so I gave up trying. Then about 2 weeks ago my partner made a comment to me saying that he thought it would be better it he wasn't here anymore. I decided that his parents needed to know this and told them. His dad made a joke about how "when he says he doesn't want to be here anymore, he means living with us, he wants to be in his own house", and then proceeded to say that when you have a child you can't worry about yourself anymore, and that my partner needs to grow up.

I had to leave the room and I was fuming at this comment. Then the topic was brought up again a few days ago by his mother to me, and I told her that the comment her husband made really upset me, and she said that what I said really upset her husband, she then indicated that I was disrespectful for saying what I said about him not wanting to be here anymore. She said it was hard to hear. I started to cry and told them that dealing with a new baby and a partner who is depressed was taking it's toll and that I needed help, as I can't be the only one trying to help him.

Since I told them about his mental health being poor, neither of them have spoken to him to ask him how he is, and his father hasn't once asked me for an update on his sons mental health.

I do understand that hearing that about your son would be very hard to hear, but it wasn't easy for me to hear either.

Am I being unreasonable to think that these people are toxic?

"They are clearly trying to help" @Bluntness100 How do you know that? She sounds very dismissive and disrespectful of her own son and DIL! Are you offended because it's a MIL post?

Bluntness100 - the day I brush off my son-in-law telling me my daughter is struggling with her mental health, and later that she has actually voiced thoughts it would be better she weren’t here, is the day I’ll be able to empathise with your perspective.

However I do agree that this arrangement was a disaster in the making from the outset, which is why I wrote it in the post ...

Still let’s all leap on a post-partum mother’s anxiety during a pandemic and tell her her mental illness is making her unbearable.
I think this is a post where had the first few responses been different, the thread would have been much more sympathetic.

The incidents you describe op are just snappiness and intolerances born from the situation you are all in. It is incredibly difficult to have people move in with you at th best of times, never mind adding all the circumstances above in too, tempers are bound to get frayed

Exactly. Don't try to turn these people who you used to get on well with, into something they're not. If you put them in the toxic box in your head, then you'll be seeing everything through that lens, which will be entirely unfair, and make you and your partner's lives even tougher.

Instead, think about how you'd be feeling if you suddenly had to share your home with two other adults, a dog and a baby, in some of the most stressful times you've known. You'd be a saint not to snap sometimes.

There are several issues here.

Firstly, it is difficult to live with other people at the best of times, let alone just after you’ve given birth. There is going to be a period of adjustment for everyone and it’s naive to think that you having a baby while living with other people can only impact on you. You’re sharing a house with your in laws, therefore, your inlaws are also sharing a house with a new baby. That’s not going to be easy for anyone, but especially not when one person is calling all the shots and it’s not even their house.

Secondly, this is your first baby. The first few months after having a baby are a massive period of adjustment when you want to be the one making the decisions, and when you see other people offering help and advice as interference. Most of us can look back to when our babies were tiny and revisit some of the things we did and said, and then we realise that perhaps we were a bit unreasonable in our thinking, even if at the time what we were thinking was logical.

While it’s understandable to not want everyone to hold the baby in certain circumstances, it is incredibly confrontational to make an announcement that from now on certain people will no longer be allowed to hold the baby. There are ways of doing it without delivering it as a definite.

Swaddling is now not advised IIRC, so you might be better off trying the sleeping bag, even if you feel resistant.

And mental health is a difficult one. it’s possible that his parents have been of a generation where they have “just got on with it.” It’s possible that they feel that you are projecting from your own feelings. It’s also possible that they’re of the generation where they feel that everyone seems to say they have MH issues these days. But you checking in with your DH to see if his parents have showed they care about him isn’t going to do his MH any favours.

Just remember, the people you are criticising right now are the people you are going to be one day. One day you will be parents or in-laws to children who have babies of their own. And when that day comes it’s entirely likely that you will say and do things they don’t agree with.

the day I brush off my son-in-law telling me my daughter is struggling with her mental health, and later that she has actually voiced thoughts it would be better she weren’t here, is the day I’ll be able to empathise with your perspective

Or maybe that will be the day you have lived cooped up with two more people, both mentally ill and a new born for a couple of months in the middle of a pandemic and get to the stage you can’t take much more?

I and others have clearly said the in laws haven’t behaved perfectly. The point you and the other holier than though poster are failing to take into account is what everyone else is trying to say, this isn’t easy for anyone and sometimes under stress we don’t behave as perfectly as you and ekgems clearly wish everyone to know you’d behave.

Your halo is in the post. Wear it with pride...

Oh wait.

What jumps out to me is that you're happy to have your dog close to the baby, but won't let your sil hold him. Even sanitised and wearing a mask.

You do rather skate over the fact that your in-laws, like many people, have a different opinion on animals and newborns from you. It must seem to them that your anxiety over risk to the baby's health is a bit selective. It comes across that your objections to other people holding the baby are personal not rational. This must be v hurtful to your inlaws, since they are doing you a big favour in having you to stay. And, deep-down, when you reject a gift, you're rejecting a person. You could at least try out the sleeping-bag. Is this really a hill to die on?

So, No, I don't think they're toxic. I think you're all in a v difficult position. And difficult as if will be for you, in your postpartum state, you need to accept that your own behaviour is contributing to the situation. Perhaps somewhere in an alternative universe your MiL is starting a thread about a potentially toxic daughter in law?

I don't think the OP sounds precious. I think it's completely reasonable to ask non household members to wear a mask when they cuddle a young baby. And if they can't be trusted to do so then they can go without the cuddles.

The in laws don't sound very empathetic of how difficult life is as a new parent with a partner with MH issues.

The best thing to do would be to keep things on an even keel (as much as possible) whilst living with them and move out as soon as is practicable.

If someone questions your parenting choices just say 'we feel this is the right way to do things for us and our baby'.

I agree with Hullbaloo. People on here saying you should just hand you baby over to all the extended family and that you're "precious" - I think they need to get some empathy. I'll hazard a guess they've not experienced pregnancy, birth and having a newborn during a pandemic. There is guidance, and furthermore it's an extremely scary time for new mums.

I also think some people are prickly as they might be MIL's themselves and this 'competition' with the DIL resonates. At the end of the day it's your baby and you need to feel comfortable. Never mind if the sister in law wants a hold, she can bloody wait!!

More pressing is your DH's mental health. The in-laws do sound repressed (like some of the older generations) around the topic, but that should not be used as an excuse by PP for their unsupportive behaviour. If this is how they are (brushing suicidal thoughts under the carpet) then he might have long-standing attachment issues to-do with his upbringing which could be triggering his mental health now, as a new Dad. Great you have sought professional help.

At the end of the day you need to move out ASAP. How soon can you go?

I would aim for a polite arms distance relationship with them in the future. They are never going to change or be the perfect in-laws you hoped.

Don't listen to PP telling you you're precious or unreasonable. (How dare they!) You've just had a baby in a pandemic and your partner has expressed suicidal thoughts. You are doing amazing.

Also @Zoecarter that's outdated bullshit about the swaddling. Lullaby Trust, NCT and NHS recommend loose swaddling. Stop trying to make the OP feel bad.

Some PP's on here! Have you forgotten what it's like being a new Mum, plus adding in-laws, DP mental health and Covid onto the mix?

You are being very sensitive. Please seek help for your anxiety, for everyone's sake.

I don’t think they are toxic either. I think you have different ideas about things and you’re both quite strong minded.

Move out.

@BalloonRide

Also *@Zoecarter* that's outdated bullshit about the swaddling. Lullaby Trust, NCT and NHS recommend loose swaddling. Stop trying to make the OP feel bad.

Some PP's on here! Have you forgotten what it's like being a new Mum, plus adding in-laws, DP mental health and Covid onto the mix?

Being a parent suddenly having to share your home and life with "a new Mum (for a daughter in-law), DS and DDIL's mental health issues and Covid (and baby and dog) into the mix" is also going to be stressful.

Both sides need to have some empathy for the other. Neither is being toxic. Just stressed and abrupt.

I didn't engage with the 'are they / aren't they toxic' debate. It's irrelevant really. But PP need to show more empathy to this new Mum under these circumstances.

People have been showing empathy, making suggestions and trying to difuse a situation that isn't really there.

Sleeping bag - just thank them, use it after swaddling? You won’t be swaddling for long.

Your DH’s mental health, don’t talk to them about it.

Your FIL could be right, albeit blunt maybe your DH’s mental health would be improved by moving out?

When can you move out? Your own space, territory will change everything and probably improve your relationship with your in laws. I don’t think that they are toxic.

No, they are not "toxic".

They have very generously opened their home to a young couple, their newborn baby and their dog, and are doing their best to help you through a difficult period. Covid poses far more threat to their age group than yours. But all you focus on is your demands.

You expect them to adjust to you and accommodate your needs, but it seems to be all one-way. You make no allowances for the fact they are older, a different generation, a different life experience, they experienced baby care in a different time. You assume they downplay their sons MH because they are ignorant or don't care. More likely, they are deliberately concealing and downplaying their own anxiety about him because of you ,so uptight and anxious. They must be exhausted from having to watch every word and look to avoid triggering more tension in their own home. No wonder your husband is feeling the strain.

     You need to  start taking a wider  view of the situation,   be more tolerant, understanding and appreciative of  them.

They're probably worried sick about their son. Then they have to listen to you blethering on about masks and swaddling. Plus you brought a bloody dog. And I'll bet the PILs are in their 50s or 60s not WW 2 veterans.

It sounds like there's fault on both sides of this but mostly yours OP. You don't seem to have much respect or gratitude for the fact that they've opened their home to you. They haven't done much wrong here and certainly not enough to warrant being labelled potentially toxic.

I think you maybe need to wipe the slate clean with them and move on.

If I was them I'd ask you all to leave to be honest. Too much drama.

Though I'd probably keep hold of the dog

Can I point out that we don't know that the OP is mentally ill? We only know that she has had bad anxiety since giving birth recently whilst living with her in-laws during a pandemic?

Also, the majority of people who have diagnosed mental health conditions are not delusional; have jobs, - sometimes "big" jobs; raise families; and are capable of making judgements about the people and behaviours around them. It's like the dark ages here, gaslighting OP because she has experienced anxiety, and as for the comment about the in-laws "being cooped up with two mentally ill people..." fucking hell! It's a Hogarthian view of something most of us will encounter in the course of our lives.

You sound extremely touchy and far more 'toxic' than they are. You're living in their house and it's up to you to be more accommodating. But it sounds like time you moved back to your own place and lived alongside the renovations.

Please ignore the toxic posters on here who are targeting you and your anxieties OP. Poor mental health (both your anxiety and DP) should be supported. Being a new mum is scary at the best of times let alone Covid. Anyone who says otherwise is lying or has forgotten what it is like.

They are not toxic, they probably mean well in their own way, I dare say my own late Mum, and late MIL would have had their own views about me and my ways of dealing with a young baby many years ago. I didn't have to live with them though, which might have caused some issues if I had lived with them.

This not speaking to you, is just a trait that some people have, when they get huffy, and best ignored.

Honestly they don’t sound toxic at all. I think your anxiety is colouring how you’re viewing things.

Son, DiL, newborn and dog.

Not easy houseguests. Just sayin'.