A&E is much calmer and a better place now that patients can’t have visitors with them

[Sharpandshineyteeth]

I do understand some people really do need a family member. I’m pretty sure the staff wouldn’t turn away an essential family member.

But generally, it’s a much better place without tons of family members and friends all sitting with patients. Taking up seats and Sometimes kicking up an unnecessary fuss.

Surely it’s better for infection control in general.

I’m sitting here right now waiting to be seen and for a Saturday night it’s so calm. The staff seem calmer and the patients seem calmer as well.

I say keep this rule!!

I have been treated very cruelly by medical professionals in the past.
I'm terrified of not having someone to advocate for me.
1 person would be plenty for me.
Alone, I'd be a wreck.

I've experienced the big families in A+E as mentioned many times by others. But what I don't get is why people want to go? It's not interesting, or entertaining.

If you are with someone who has a minor injury (that's usually me BTW, as clumsy and unlucky) it's just very dull, and too bright lights, and there's no decent food. Last time my OH hurt himself playing football I dropped him off and picked him up a few hours later. You might think I'm a bit mean but he was fine to sit and read a magazine, or limp to the tea machine. And I was only 15 min away.

Thoughts are with everyone who has experienced something awful in A+E. Some very sad experiences

Rafa
They probably do care, but they should make it more clear to you that they do. The problem is that they think it's been stolen, then they will know they're almost certainly not getting it back.
Hmm.
The person was admitted at 11pm through A&E
They were barely conscious but I was not allowed to go with them and explain what had happened.
By 8am the next day the items had gone missing either in A&E or AMU

The hospital were VERY offish about the whole thing and did not care
(all in emails)

@TheDuchessofMalfy

I’ve said yanbu but I agree that a limit of one “extra” per attendee is a better solution.

And I agree re maternity appointments - maybe one person should be allowed if they sign something to say they will immediately give up their seat if there aren’t enough for the pregnant women, and will use a loo elsewhere in the hospital if they need to go - not the ones in the maternity dept.

I have to say I was always astonished by how many women had someone with them for routine, at the GP clinic antenatal appointments - I'm not talking about scans, consultant appointments, things like that but just the ones where all they do is do a urine sample, take your blood pressure and measure the bump. I was surprised so many dads seemed to come to them all and impressed that they could get the time off work! It was a bit of a pain because a lot of them didn't give up their seat in the waiting room for the pregnant women (I also think that there should be a code of honour where a slightly pregnant woman should give up her seat for a heavily pregnant one but that did not appear to be a widespread belief!)

I had to go to A&E last week as I had a blood clot. I was by myself as we were told no one else was allowed in, and it was very scary. I also had to go for various scans and X-rays and it was very painful trying to walk there by myself if I had of had somebody with me I could've lent on them.
Although there was a young boy in A&E and he was accompanied by two children and two female adults and they were allowed in no problem.

I think everyone should have someone with them, but the whole family treating it like a trip out should be stopped permanently.

We've been unfortunate to have a life changing diagnosis broken to us whilst a family of cavemen (7 of them) sit eating McDonald's and talking loudly about what's wrong with my DS. Their DC had a bead stuck up her nose so hardly touch and go.

Being alone in A&E is miserable. Patients do better in all circumstances when they have support. Sitting alone and in pain waiting for a doctor is a really miserable experience. I dislocated my elbow in July (while 39 weeks pregnant). It needed two attempts at reduction and then a trip to the maternity assessment unit to check the baby. It was much worse for having to be alone.

Taking the whole family as if it’s a day out is unnecessary but it does help to have someone there just to support you.

You get similar arguments about how much calmer postnatal wards are without visitors. But my experience was of being alone and unable to move after an EMCS trying to care for a new baby on a ward that was not sufficiently staffed for people to attend to needs such as ‘can you pass me that cup I can’t reach?’ and ‘can you put my baby down for me? [wait 2 minutes til he’s awake and screaming] can you pick him up for me? [and repeat]’.

It’s just not humane to leave people alone in situations where they are incapacitated, in pain, exhausted and otherwise vulnerable.

@greeneyedlulu

Midwife friend of mine said no visitors in the maternity ward has increased successful breastfeeding for the new mums which I think is wonderful so they are considering making it permanent which I would have loved when in with my first as there was so many noisy visitors. Too many people come along to the hospital a and e for the drama rather than needing to and it would be lovely if companions were limited especially parents with multiple children there. Theres no need!

Genuinely, I would pay a very large amount of money to ensure that I did not have to suffer no visitor postnatal ward care ever again. Even very limited visiting hours and limited to birth partners only (which I’ve also experienced) was bad.

The giving birth during a pandemic experience was really traumatic. If I realised how dreadful the hospital policies and staff attitudes would be, I’d have elected to give birth somewhere that wasn’t going to leave me alone and pretty vulnerable at any point in the process (before labour, during labour, or after the birth).

Maybe the initial breastfeeding rates at discharge might be a bit better, but I would imagine perinatal mental health is considerably less good than in circumstances where women have social support.

I have only been to A&E once in my life and
hope that I never, ever have to again.
I had pneumonia and I honestly think that without the fantastic paramedic and ambulance crew I wouldn't be here now. My oxygen sats were 75% and left in the corridor on a chair for 9 hours, my dh wasn't allowed in as they were busy. Not even offered a glass of water. I was really scared and felt so vulnerable. There was an elderly man in a chair next to me who was diabetic for same amount of time. He wasn't given any food until his daughter pushed her way onto the ward and was crying for help.
Throughout they were taking bloods and other painful procedures with absolutely no privacy.
At one point two nurses turned my oxygen off and said they would try something else and never came back. Luckily another nurse and an ambulance driver sorted it.
It was 6 years ago, can you tell I am still angry?
Since then I will only go to any medical appointments with my dh or dsis.
Strangely enough I have been treated much more kindly.

Not even offered a glass of water.

I was in A&E/the MAU for about 7 hours. I didn’t get offered a drink either. I couldn’t go anywhere or get one myself either. If DP had been allowed in with me, I could have sent him to get me one and get me something to eat. It was about 2am when they finally let me out and I was really hungry and thirsty.

The specialist registrar had been considering having me stay on the ward so the consultant could evaluate my arm in the morning to see if it needed surgery. Instead he sent me home and said someone would call me the next day. They didn’t and it took ages (plus a very helpful A&E sister) to get an answer about what was happening. So I waited 6 weeks to have a pointless phone consultation with a different registrar who asked me questions like ‘does it feel like it might fall out?’ in lieu of an actual examination. Then told me to self refer for some physio. I’d cut the temporary cast off myself (the doctor I saw in a A&E had said going home and cutting the cast off myself after a couple of weeks was a possibility so I did that in the absence of any other advice from
Orthopaedics. There was no way I could have held the baby with the cast still on). There was clearly no plan for the nhs removing it (via a phone call). They didn’t even seem to realise it was only a backslab, not a full cast. Then all I could get from physio was a leaflet in the post. The same leaflet that I’d had to read through to get to the self referral page in the first place. Apparently if that doesn’t help I can ask for a phone appointment (for physio).

So I’m not hugely impressed with Covid NHS services. I think all the staff you actually get to interact with are trying their best, but the decisions made (by people much more senior) about what to offer and how to offer it are really crap. Insisting that people attend alone is just one of the many crap decisions.

I do not think we should keep the new no visitors/supporters or phonecall based practices the nhs is currently offering.

When my Mum was taken to A&E DH and I both followed on. Mum was barely conscious and I needed DH's support. I also needed his support when some cow of a doctor said they would be discharging her and looking at me as though I was something she'd trodden in when I said they'd have to sort out her care as I wouldn't (as advised by her GP).

I also needed DH's support when I was told Mum was dying, I couldn't have coped on my own when I was asked if I wanted her to have invasive treatment. While the decision was mine, I needed his opinion.

One person per patient works in some cases, but it must be flexible. In a civilised society people can't be left on their own when they are vulnerable.

Having just spent a fairly miserable 6 hours in A&E the other night...

I am a big fan of minimal visitors/attendents with patients.

I went in on my own, frankly if I feel like crap i don't want to be worrying about the person with me, and I can usually advocate for myself. I have pre-written notes and drugs lists to take in when I go as well, this is well worth thinking about for anyone with complex medical stuff!

A&E seemed to be running FAR more swiftly with fewer people in, those who needed someone with them, had someone, but those who didn't were alone and things really did seem to get done far more efficiently.

I don't see why people are leaping on the suggestion to strictly limit who comes in to only those actually necessary - NO ONE is saying those who can't advocate for themselves should be left alone, no ones saying those terrified to be alone should be alone.

No one needs to bring the whole bloody family to A&E, one is sufficient for most, occasionally two and many people are fine by themselves.

For those unhappy that they were not offered food or water...

Did you actually ask?

In some cases staff won't know whether you can have food or water at all, and can't offer such to all and sundry - if you ask they will go and check.

I take a bag with me that has water bottle, list of meds, relevant recent medical history etc -whilst I appreciate not everyone has conditions that make that seem obvious, it is sensible if you have any time before going to hospital to pack some useful stuff.

My 88 year old father with moderate dementia has been in A&E for 24 hours. He has a blood clot on his brain and an upper GI bleed. I am not allowed to be with him despite them admitting that he lacks capacity. A nurse told me she would raise it with a doctor. One hour later she rang to tell me he fallen out of bed , she promised to ask the Doctor to call me. No call received. Two hours later I managed to speak to a different nurse who had just come on duty she told me there were no Doctors to speak to me but reassured me Dad now has one to one care due to the fall. If I had been allowed to be with him , I could have provided the one to one care and given Dad some much needed support. This is his fourth admission to A&E in a week, he must be frightened and feeling abandoned.

neverundersold, you should make a strong complaint to the hospital. In our A+E/main hospital, one carer is allowed to be with a person with extra needs like learning disability or dementia (as well as anyone under 18,or at the discretion of the nurses) It is disgraceful that you weren't allowed in, and it has caused avoidable harm to your father.

I take a bag with me that has water bottle, list of meds, relevant recent medical history etc

Most of us don’t plan on going to A&E; it comes about because of a totally unexpected event. Understandably we don’t pack for the occasion.

And you can only ask for water if (a) you see someone to ask (rather than being left entirely on your own) and (b) you’re in a fit state to actually ask (many people in A&E are not for so many reasons).

I clearly said at the beginning that if someone needed a carer with them then obviously that trumps the rule.

I do understand it’s miserable being by yourself but if the service runs better?!?

I found the nurses had much more time but that could be because it’s generally quieter at the moment.

That's the question, isn't it? 'If the service runs better...' and for who? There are stories of it being better, and there are stories of it being worse.

As a pp has noticed with theirs, I get treated better if my spouse is around. I find things go far more quickly, my questions are answered more, my pain is taken more seriously when he's there even if I'm the only one talking. People are a fuck ton nicer and more efficient with him around. Don't know what it is about me that people think on my own I'm fine to ignore, belittle, or attack, but I'll do what I need to lower the risks to myself.

Now these are all personal experiences, just like the ones of everyone being so much happier as things are (which likely involves several factors like fewer people using those services in some areas). There would need to be more looking into it before making any changes long-term. However, I'm in an area that pre-COVID was encouraging people to bring 'chaperones' if they wish because it was acknowledged that a lot of people will delay or refuse medical treatment if forced to go on their own. That leads to greater issues down the road. There is also the issue of medical abuse and neglect, which is hard enough to prove and get anything done about in the best of times, I'm not sure how anyone who faces now will get any help.

Services can get tighter on who someone can bring for support, while acknowledging the reality that the nature of medical care and life - including things like childcare, someone caring for multiple people, and so on - can mean that people can't and shouldn't be on their own & flexibility to those situations will be needed. Yes, there are always people who will push the boundaries and beyond of acceptability, but that goes both to patients with a lot of non-patients with them and to the HCPs.

I worried about women in labour being alone, three babies left alone a lot but DH was there. He spotted when things had gone horribly wrong with baby 2, ran out and found staff who were elsewhere. They did then save babies life. If I had been alone that day I would not have three children. So yes you do need a clear headed person at times.

Widdlin
NO ONE is saying those who can't advocate for themselves should be left alone, no ones saying those terrified to be alone should be alone.
Yes they are.
I had to watch a barely conscious person who was unable to answer questions wheeled away from me.
PROOF that the person was incapacitated was the multiple phone calls from A&E to me during the night to try to understand what was going on.

IF I'd been allowed to stay
the phone calls would not have been needed
and that person's belongings would not have been stolen

My mum just spent 10 days in a hospital. Seeing her being taken away on a stretcher and not being able to go with her or to visit, was horrendous.

Not having anyone with you is really hard. In April DH had a severe allergic reaction and I had to drop him at the doors of A&E so he could walk in alone. Luckily A&E was empty and the staff took one look at him (all swollen up like the marshmallow man on Ghostbusters) and took him straight through for treatment.

However, I've also sat in A&E with my daughter who had a broken wrist before Covid and I agree the size of some family groups is ridiculous. Whole families literally unpacking picnics to sit and eat whilst their numerous kids run riot with very little sign of illness in any of them.

I think a 1 adult per child limit and an adult only to be accompanied by 1 person if really necessary would make a lot of sense. When did A&E become a whole family outing for so many people?

I’ve been in hospital twice over the course of the pandemic for different emergencies. I was in in March with what turned out to be the start of appendicitis and it was awful - people shouting and taking up space everywhere, four or five people with one patient. Then when my appendix went in June, it was amazing as it was so quiet. My care was rapid and amazing, and far less stressful as the environments were quieter.

However when I had anaphylaxis in August, my care was awful, I was forgotten about for hours, down as abdominal pain instead of anaphylaxis, left to cry alone in a cubical with worsening symptoms as my phone had died. If I’d have had an advocate with me it could all have been avoided, it left me with quite a lot of trauma after. We need advocates for patients.

I had an appointment on Friday that I got life changing news about illness that’s now deemed not fixable and not likely to ever get better .

I didn’t fully take it in, couldnt cope with what I was told and have had continuous problems since that GP has said are panic attacks . I remember getting out and just standing silently in the hall realising I’d never feel better than this .

Been on Valium all weekend after panic attacks once after the other . GP did point out this morning if I’d only been allowed someone - anyone - to sit and hold my hand we might not be now in the position of going through crisis intervention, GP appointment, casualty, several NHS 24 calls, one 999 call .

I was in an empty clinic, just me on a 45 bed unit with no other person except two nurses. It wouldn’t have harmed anyone for my mum to be there too .

I would say yes I agree with you, but I was in A&E last month due to a heart problem. I was kept in and had to go through everything alone. I was very scared. I was left on my own 99% of the time I was there not knowing what was going on & a few times it ran though my head that I could have died there alone and noone would have noticed. I was put onto a medical ward, every patient was between 80 and 100. I'm 35.it was absolutely horrible and I really wanted my mum to be honest!