A&E is much calmer and a better place now that patients can’t have visitors with them

[Sharpandshineyteeth]

I do understand some people really do need a family member. I’m pretty sure the staff wouldn’t turn away an essential family member.

But generally, it’s a much better place without tons of family members and friends all sitting with patients. Taking up seats and Sometimes kicking up an unnecessary fuss.

Surely it’s better for infection control in general.

I’m sitting here right now waiting to be seen and for a Saturday night it’s so calm. The staff seem calmer and the patients seem calmer as well.

I say keep this rule!!

@WiseUpJanetWeiss In my original post I said no relatives "unless in a caring or translating capacity." I apologise if I was unclear, perhaps I should have specified that we mean caring in the sense of supporting.

Yes it probably is calmer but I wouldn't know. Not convinced it's better though.
2 weeks ago poor FIL who is 82 fell and bumped his head while out shopping with DH.
He looked grim so DH bundled him into the car and drove him to a&e.
DH wasn't allowed in.
FIL had to sit in the waiting room for 3 hours waiting to see a doctor.
Turns out FIL had a heart attack and that was why he'd fallen.

Poor man sat there on his own all that time with no one to speak up for him. He literally could have dropped dead at any moment.

He's since had tripple heart bypass and a pacemaker.

[quote ShopTattsyrup]@WiseUpJanetWeiss In my original post I said no relatives "unless in a caring or translating capacity." I apologise if I was unclear, perhaps I should have specified that we mean caring in the sense of supporting.[/quote]
Gosh you don’t have to apologise. I read “caring“ in the narrower sense, so I apologise for overreacting.

Certainly you wouldn’t think I needed a carer, but I would need DH to advocate for me in A&E. You would not know, and I would not tell you in person, that I have a hospital phobia (very convenient in my line of work...) and I would very much need DH there.

It really depends on the illness and on the patient. I've broken my arm twice, I can and did attend alone.

My 87 year old blind Dad was desperately ill in A&E and my 86 year old deaf Mum wouldn't leave him but they also needed me to advocate and communicate with the doctors.

Then it was so serious that I told my sister to come. So that was 1 patient and 3 attendants. And we were right to do that.

But I agree it shouldn't be a jolly for The Broons having a day out.

Depends which bit of A+E you are in.

My DM went in with sepsis last year.

Reception - bunfight with police presence to keep an eye on the regulars.
Minors - loads of people generally milling about, arguing and falling over each other
Majors - turn the corner and it was the land of the over 75s, frail, many had dementia, all lined up like sardines on trolleys.

Majors was absolutely inhumane, relatives were there supporting their very confused and distressed family members, it was grim. I left after 12 hours when my DM who had been having rigors and hallucinations the whole time hit the ward.

Oh, and they would have cheerfully given my DM antibiotics she has anaphylaxis to despite both of us mentioning it several times - they had even drawn them up

So my experience was that relatives in majors were vital for some very vulnerable people.

It's a pain in the back side of you don't like near the hospital and it's in the evening though. I was stuck sitting in the car in a deserted multi storey waiting for dp for 3 hours. It's 1 hour 20 mins round trip plus that's a lot of petrol. I felt pretty unsafe despite locking the car. Got asked by the police at one point why I was there, apparently it's a known drug pick up point and they advised me to go elsewhere (I found an on street space). You can't drive yourself when your eyesight has failed completely (retina!)

*live

The last time I went to A&e I was pretty out of it. My husband had made me a doctors appointment and taken me there. Luckily I'd got a letter from GP who'd sent me and didn't have to wait at all. Got taken through immediately. They tried to get me to take deep breaths and that knocked me out so much they needed to get me on oxygen. I'm so glad my husband was there because I was in no way able to do anything for myself.

@ThighthighOfthigh totally agree with this. I've broken my wrist since lockdown and I was fine to be dropped off and collected, no problem. I was in pain but not unbearable and was totally with it and able to communicate with both staff and text to my family.

However, in the past my husband got seriously ill very quickly and I took him to A&E, wheeled him in and answered all the questions as he was unable to. I was very worried and would have hated to have had to leave him at the door - he wasn't able to text/call. Also my children were both admitted as babies and we both wanted to be there as we were so concerned. I had to be there as was breastfeeding but so pleased my husband was there too for support so sometimes there is a place to allow both parents.

I've been "one of those people" before when my elderly dad became unwell during school holidays. I had to take him to A and E with both my DC in tow. He didnt live nearby, and as it was an emergency I felt unable to drop the kids with anyone at a moment's notice, without knowing how long I would be. Ddad was showing signs of confusion and wouldnt have been able to go on his own. Another time I took both DC when one was Ill as my DH was out.

If the patient being taken into A&E is not in a position to give accurate information
it strikes me as negligent that medics would not choose to have somebody with them who can

they diagnose based on what they can see at that moment
not the whole picture

the person who arrived at A&E with the patient may be able to facilitiate a better outcome

it is crassly arrogant of medics to presume otherwise without checking

A maximum limit of one person per A&E patient should be an NHS wide policy. Waiting rooms are already overcrowded as it is without the big family outing brigade taking up valuable space

I was in A&E recently. On my own. Being in severe pain I was only just able to articulate what my situation was. Not to mention being left on my own for hours. Many patients, especially elderly ones need someone to speak for them. It's unsafe, let alone unkind, to insist on no-one accompanying patients.

I had to advocate of OH who was out of it with the pain, post operative complications so I had to explain the previous operation to them while he was in absolute agony he would not have been able to do so. All the while Corrie was playing in the waiting room and a family of dad, sprained finger it turned out, mum, and numerous kids were running around and causing havoc. Dad with sprained finger had arrived by ambulance. OH had arrived driven by a manic wife well over the speed limit.

Yes you may well need someone to be with you, but not the extended family.

Before my parents passed, both were in and out of hospitals in various states of confusion. Neither could have managed without one of their three children accompanying him/her to Emergency. One hospital lost my father's dentures. Having new ones fitted and made was difficult and expensive.

The worse bit was being at hospital 1 with one parent whilst a sibling was with the other parent at Hospital 2.

It’s a bloody cheek when patients have 4 or 5 people in their cubicle with them. They are completely in the way and seem to think it’s okay for nurses, Drs and X-ray to have to manoeuvre around them. One lady the other day, sat in the middle of the corridor bloody knitting! I really wanted to drive the bed right over her!!!

Do you know I've read these and I think it's a very very rare family who wants to hang out en masse in A&E for a laugh, maybe 1%. So the rest of us have had extremely valid and sometimes life saving reasons for accompanying relatives.

Fuxake, no one with any choice about it wants to go to hospital. Maybe someone has been forced to bring all their children because they can't get emergency childcare.

Screw that
Not being able to have someone with me would put me off seeking treatment and I'd discharge myself or just not even go, be that A&E, maternity or a basic appointment
Hospitals and Drs bring on my anxiety, fight or flight kicks in and no staff can calm me. I NEED someone for my safety and others
When dd was born I had heaps coming in. It kept me sane and not running for the hills in fear

As an ex nurse as well as someone who's been a patient during more chaotic times I totally agree with all those saying 1 accompanying supporter/advocate per patient

I was also a patient overseas after the ridiculously lax new rules (or rather lack of) of more visitors, no strict visiting hours etc started in the Uk which was towards the end of my time nursing too.

Older more experienced nurses at the time said it would lead to major issues with infection control, impede their work, negatively impact patient care and slow down recovery - and they were absolutely right!

Patients AND staff in all areas of a hospital but I would argue especially in a&e need space (literally physical space), calm and quiet in order to get/give the best treatment.

Prior to covid it had gone way past what was sensible!

I've a relative who seems to get a kick out of visiting a&e with their not really sick/badly injured dc to the point they'll put off going to gp of illness/injury occurs during "office hours" in order to have an excuse to go! It's weird!

They, as pps have noted, are also one of those they take the WHOLE family totally unnecessarily, and of course post the whole nonsense on sm - it's all about the drama!

As a patient I've seen many other families/groups behaving similarly, quite often several members of the group (not the patient) are also high/drunk and aggressive with it!

When a patient overseas it was slightly like a time warp but in a good way.

Strict visiting hours, Meal and round times were outside of these, NO sitting on beds EVER by anyone but the patient, Max 2 visitors at a time, NO excessive noise (they wouldn't have allowed raucous laughter or singing or playing of music without headphones), a "quiet" time in the afternoon where all TVs were off and no rounds or routine obs done (scheduled around this time period) basically patients left COMPLETELY in peace to read, sleep (encouraged) or do quiet, peaceful activities like crosswords - so much calmer and more peaceful and more conducive to recovery than what our system has become and was starting to become then

I definitely can't see them ever tolerating drunk/high non patients in a&e!

I must say that they also still completely changed beds daily none of this just straightening the sheets crap! And the visitors chairs were plastic coated type deal and sanitised before and after visiting hours.

Our infection control now in Uk is pretty much a joke!

Some relatives will also try to bully and intimidate staff by going in family groups and asking to be pushed up the priority list, complaining about waiting times etc.

Yep!

On more than one occasion I've witnessed some high/drunk Dick (yep usually but not always men) kicking off because a patient admitted by ambulance has "jumped the queue"

@notasillysausage while I sympathise I wonder if you think you'd feel less like that if you were getting more support emotionally from the ward staff? I know it's not the same but I have heard that on post natal wards the quality and quantity of ward care has deteriorated for a number of reasons but mainly cost and relying on patients relatives to "take up the slack"?

If I have to go to A & E with her on my own, and I have to go to the toilet, there is nobody to watch over her

I would say in that situation an hcp SHOULD relieve you but I'm well aware that the cuts have fucked such sensible options right up!

One thing I do have is a list on my phone of all medical conditions, medication and doses plus emergency contact and GP surgery

Same - mainly as I have among other things pots so spend more time than others unconscious!

You can request copies of medical notes in the UK

yes ok - good luck with that! Even better luck getting accurate ones!

A month ago I was taken ill in excruciating abdominal pain in the early hours. 111 advised A&E. DH drove me, receptionist got OH to put me in a wheelchair and take me through to waiting area and was then told to leave.
I ended up very ill in hospital for 10 days.
By far the worst part of the whole experience for both DH and me was him having to leave me on my own slumped in a wheelchair in the middle of the night.

Whilst I get that a whole family entourage is unhelpful and unnecessary i would argue that anyone ill enough to be in A&E needs the chance to have someone with them even in these Covid times.

@Graphista is right. It causes major problems with multiple relatives on the wards. I’ve not worked in A&E but I can imagine.

It’s not fair to comment if you don’t work in this area. Visiting used to be 2-4 & 6-8. Now it’s 12-8 I feel sorry for the rest of the patients in that bay with them.

[quote ShopTattsyrup]@WiseUpJanetWeiss I do care about my patients, and the reality is. If you need to get an acutely unwell patient stabilised quickly then that's much easier if their family can't see what's happening behind the scenes until they're stabilised. If there is a woman having a miscarriage in one cubicle, I need to give her as much attention as I can, without 3 children from another patient running through A&E or without a drunken couple having an argument in the corridor outside her cubicle. As I said in my previous post, it's lovely because it means I can focus on my patient, I can talk to them, I can get on with treating them without having half their family sat around fussing and pulling me away from my actual job so that I can fetch them chairs, make them a cup of tea, so thay they can ask me the same question asked by each individual relative when I'm trying to actually treat their relative.

As I also said, one relative is allowed in in a caring capacity. If someone is distressed, vulnerable, has additional needs, is scared of needles and needs someone to hold their hand etc. they of course can have someone to accompany them.[/quote]
Absolutely this.

Personally OP, I would limit it to one visitor per person and I would do the same with the Maternity ward.

When I gave birth in April (mid lockdown) we weren't allowed any guests and yeah, it was awful not seeing DP (he was there for the actual birth but not during my induction or after birth for the 4 days we had to stay in afterwards). However, it was nice on the ward in general. You didn't have hundreds of family members all crowding into tiny bays making huge amounts of noise. The staff seemed less stressed in general and even said they were enjoying a break from having to police visitors. I would make a blanket rule for the hospital to make allow 1 visitor per patient.

Obviously end of life situations would need to be handled as exceptional circumstances.

People go in via A&E to die. My DH was one. We have three children and he has older children. Who do we choose to be with him while he can say his goodbyes? If we have blanket rules then people will suffer. My DH had a cancerous brain tumours, but looked well. Some of his care was shocking and would have been worse had I not been there, over the years to advocate for him. Not all hospitals have other areas to wait in, so people can wait to be called through, so they can be there at the end.

My Mum and my Grandad also both died within a few hours of going through A&E and because of a shortage of beds never got moved onto a ward.

I don't think people realise how well you can look, but be seriously ill. There isn't the staff to get drinks, or things like straws, see to swallowing issues, stop patients wandering (because of confusion), or stop falls. I've been in hospital and had to tell HCAs to put bars back up, I think some think that they are used for fun. People are robbed, sexually/physically assaulted, in hospital.

As for the example of the miscarriage, here in Liverpool, we have separate hospitals, so again, blanket bans don't allow for area specifics. Were our Liverpool Royal is placed isn't a safe area of the city. Children aren't allowed in the closest pubs, so there's nowhere to wait and not everyone has cars.

I agree with limits, in numbers for minor injuries, but not other parts of A&E.

Most of the time having all the extended family there is actually really unhelpful.

If I’m trying to admit a patient on the ward I just want to be able to talk to their parents/carers without several relatives telling me about all their health problems that are generally irrelevant or trying to diagnose what’s wrong (like the one who came on to the ward and told me the child had appendicitis as they had abdominal pain, they didn’t. They had abdo pain because they were quite ill and muscles hurt from breathing). When I’m trying to do my paperwork and find out all the important information I just want to speak to the people who know the child best, and currently we can do that.

I do feel for patients in a&e, I think they should have at least one person with them, but as I work in Paeds they do.