Not allowed to go home at the weekend, not allowed to mix with students outside your bubble, not allowed to have parties, maybe not allowed for Xmas?

[chomalungma]

I really feel sorry for students at Uni in Scotland.

Those students who are feeling isolated. Those who just want some fun and to experience student life.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-54285720

And break these rules and you could lose your university place

Its inhumane. Its removal of basic human rights permitting the ability to have a social life (and in a strange and new environment) that are being removed from young people in a way never before attempted in modern society. No-one knows whether it will usher in a whole host of other problems, not just now but in years to come when this particular cohort will have spectacularly badly developed inter-personal skills.

As for old people, literally the moment the lockdown was announced in March, my local M&S was literally crammed with OAPs. They were in the aisles, they were chatting outside, they were in the cafe (until that close). The other supermarkets were the same. The special hours set aside for them to protect them were ignored. Its as if a big beacon has been lit up saying "OAPS go forth and mingle".

I realise not all OAPs did this, but really many of them were not willing to self isolate so as to help themselves.

30Belladonna12 - well, you hear them being interviewed on the radio quite often. Probably aired to be controversial. I know most vulnerable people are being fairly careful but it does seem unfair that young adults (I'm not one!) are being asked to sacrifice most when at least risk.

@LBTM

30Belladonna12 - well, you hear them being interviewed on the radio quite often. Probably aired to be controversial. I know most vulnerable people are being fairly careful but it does seem unfair that young adults (I'm not one!) are being asked to sacrifice most when at least risk.

You can't go on the views of people you hear on the radio. Inevitably they will pick people with the most controversial opinions. The data clearly shows that people over 70 have lower infection rates at the moment and there is no evidence that they are piling into pubs. I don't know whether it is "unfair" for people who are at lower risk to be making more sacrifice. I know which group I would rather be in. Regardless, I'm sure that the great majority of younger people don't want their grandparents and possibly parents to die of this.

Its inhumane. Its removal of basic human rights permitting the ability to have a social life (and in a strange and new environment) that are being removed from young people in a way never before attempted in modern society. No-one knows whether it will usher in a whole host of other problems, not just now but in years to come when this particular cohort will have spectacularly badly developed inter-personal skills.

That's a bit over the top. Being asked to self isolate for a couple of weeks is not going to spectacularly damage their interpersonal skills.

@Bikingbear

No, it s definitely the case, England not Scotland
See link

www.cambridgestudents.cam.ac.uk/new-students/manage-your-student-information/personal-information/residing-outside-universitys

I dont know about Scotland but I live in a university city and the students here seem to be managing to have a social life. Maybe less big house parties, maybe more in the fresh air than previously but they've certainly discovered the bars, pubs and shops. Not sure that many of them are missing mummy and daddy yet either.

@nearlyoldenough I think Oxford and Cambridge are pretty unique in that respect. No wonder they are not known for their diversity and equality.

I don’t feel sorry for them. They are not being fucked over, it’s a global pandemic, a once in a lifetime event.
So they lose a year of partying? Big fucking deal. They have another sixty, seventy years of life ahead.

I can guarantee that, if the virus was as serious for them, they would take it more seriously, but most of them don’t give a fuck about anything other than their own selfish agenda.

I will save my sympathy for old people with only a few years, languishing in care homes or cancer patients dying in pain, not able to access hospice or palliative care and truly suffering.

One thing this virus has shown is the myth of society. Everyone looks for someone who has it better than they do. Those people who rushed back to pubs and to the Spanish Costas, the covid deniers and mask refusers are entirely concerned with their own lives and won’t tolerate any restrictions on it. What a pity they are not the people dying on ventilators or living with symptoms of long covid.

I thought Brits were terminally stupid when they voted for Brexit, but this pandemic behaviour has shown the depth to which the country has sunk.
Students not being able to get pissed or off their heads because it’s ‘tradition’ are the least of our worries.

incand, well not that usually. If you went back to my mother's residential teacher training college in the 1940s they had curfews and rules on no one staying the night (as indeed did the Catholic halls of residence at my university in the 1980s) and people were expected to be a virgin until marriage. Some went there to study and make close friends through academic discussions about books so it is probably not unprecedented to control young people although the lack of face to face lectures and any lockdown which might stop them leaving their room is clearly pretty difficult even compared with the 1940s.

@Belladonna12

Why should NHS staff be put at an increased risk of infection or a worker risk losing their job due to looking after a self isolating school aged child just because students and their parents thought the rules shouldn't apply to them

NHS staff probably won't be at increased infection from students as they are unlikely to seek healthcare. Why would the student getting infected because a worker to lose their job because their schoolchild is self isolating. Students in universities aren't mixing with schoolchildren. There probably not mixing with anyone in the local community. I think students getting infected is the least of our worries at the moment.

Of course it will spread into the local community there are cafe workers that are parents, bar workers that live at home and university staff that have vulnerable family members. This in turn will raise numbers of cases within the community and you'd have to be a bit daft to think it wouldn't considering this virus is growing at an exponential rate. Many Lower paid workers don't have Job security so taking 2 weeks off here and there due to self isolation will impact their employability, so how can you not see students just carrying on as normal will absolutely be partly responsibile for increased community transmission.

Xenia good post. So if we say no such restrictions on human rights in the last 90 years have been seen (and we are talking primarily about the rights to liberty, expression, association and assembly).

As we all know, the ECHR was brought in to protect Western Europe from atrcoitcues such as the holocaust occurring again but also to prevent the then emerging threat of communisism severely curtailing individual liberties.

Article 15 gives the rules on diverting from those rights and it states that it should only be done where there is a public emergency threatening the life of the nation as a whole. The Syraceuse Principles say similar. We know that case law has interpreted this as meaning that it must be an IMMINENT threat and the removal of human rights must be for the shortest time period possible to deal with it.

So we know already that this lockdown goes too far, that it breaches international law and it is really stretching the public health exception ground for it to go on month after month withiut end in sight.

Incidentally, the last White Paper on Scottish independence, which was in the firm of questions and answers, asked if there were plans for an independent Scotland to sign the ECHR. "No" was the answer, an independent was to have a "Scottish version" of the ECHR instead...

Yes, I agree OP, it's absolutely shit for students. The ones who missed out because of the grades fiasco earlier this year and had to defer till 2021 are beginning to look like the lucky ones... They can stay at home with families/pets instead of being confined to one small student room, get a job, socialise with their existing friends who are still at home within the existing limits and generally aren't having to deal with Covid worry, loneliness, social isolation, cramped living conditions and academic pressure all at once.

I never thought I'd say this but I'm actually glad this crisis has come at our stage of life (DH and I together, settled, our own house which we bought a couple of years ago, able to wfh, toddler to keep us busy and get us out and about). With older kids, we'd have to deal with the schools situation, the worry and mental health issues and, had we been students or in our 20s, we'd have been stuck in student accommodation or tiny shared flats without the socialising and going out which was central to our lives at that point. As it is, work/childcare/chores never seem to end so we're happy enough with our hour in front of the TV before bed. But that's not a life for students.

@Starksforthewin
Spot on!
@IncandescentSilver as per, completely OTT shite, inhumane, human rights honestly talk about exaggerating, they’ve been ASKED to stay out the pub to try and stop the spread, hardly Guantanamo Bay. I never liked the term snowflake but I’m starting to get it.

Of course it will spread into the local community there are cafe workers that are parents, bar workers that live at home and university staff that have vulnerable family members.

A large proportion of the café and bar workers near universities and certainly in the campuses are students themselves. Anyone who is a parent with a schoolchild is much more likely to get Covid from their child via school rather than from a university student. It doesn't seem to be getting that much media attention compared with University outbreaks that loads of schools have had to send home "year bubbles" because of cases. I don't know a single school near me that is not affected and it is only a matter of time before my own schoolchild is self isolating and potentially infecting me and DH.

I will save my sympathy for old people with only a few years, languishing in care homes

That's an odd stance to take. People in care homes may have had their last visitor back in March. They don't "languish" there because of students. And yes they are dying along with no human contact which is a disgrace. But that's not because of students either.

It's because their care providers have decided "no visitors" even if having visitors will greatly enhance the remainder of their residents' lives.

@Belladonna12

Of course it will spread into the local community there are cafe workers that are parents, bar workers that live at home and university staff that have vulnerable family members.

A large proportion of the café and bar workers near universities and certainly in the campuses are students themselves. Anyone who is a parent with a schoolchild is much more likely to get Covid from their child via school rather than from a university student. It doesn't seem to be getting that much media attention compared with University outbreaks that loads of schools have had to send home "year bubbles" because of cases. I don't know a single school near me that is not affected and it is only a matter of time before my own schoolchild is self isolating and potentially infecting me and DH.

The point is children need to be at school whereas students in outbreak areas don't need to be out partying. Trade offs, see.

All about minimising transmission and risk isn't it

The point is children need to be at school whereas students in outbreak areas don't need to be out partying. Trade offs, see.

If you believe that the outbreaks in university halls are just because a partying you believe anything. The students are all living together in halls with hundreds of others. It is not easier for them to avoid infection than it is for schoolchildren whether or not they party.

It's awful.
They can't keep them there over Xmas, some of the students MH will be shot to shit.
And the ones that don't care will party all over Xmas and new year.

@megletthesecond

It's awful. They can't keep them there over Xmas, some of the students MH will be shot to shit. And the ones that don't care will party all over Xmas and new year.

Of course universities can't keep them there for Christmas (even if they wanted to they can do that). The government would have to enforce but I think that would be unlikely unless they told everybody else that they were lockdown for Christmas too.

even if they wanted to they can do that even if they wanted to they can't do that

@megletthesecond

It's awful. They can't keep them there over Xmas, some of the students MH will be shot to shit. And the ones that don't care will party all over Xmas and new year.

That's a really good point about partying if they remain in their university towns.

Personally I would be booking somewhere to do 14 days iso and then going home, its not helpful keeping them all where they are its become a hotbed in the halls they need to divvy it up. Its a mess

I can foresee some boarding schools being in similar situations. What happens if a boarding school has to self isolate the week before Christmas
N

YANBU.

Our government kidded itself that everything would be fine and we'd be back to normal in no time. Now we quite blatantly have a second wave, and it's because of reckless government policies, and so students have been dropped in the shit.

It was already bad enough thanks to landlords demanding students sign contracts way in advance. Universities could have completely closed and legally most students would still have to pay their rent whether or not they moved in.