Not allowed to go home at the weekend, not allowed to mix with students outside your bubble, not allowed to have parties, maybe not allowed for Xmas?

[chomalungma]

I really feel sorry for students at Uni in Scotland.

Those students who are feeling isolated. Those who just want some fun and to experience student life.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-54285720

And break these rules and you could lose your university place

[quote zurich09]@Aragog - genuine question as an academic who was well aware of all of these problems back in Feb/March and cares about students - what did you think it was going to be like??? its not a dig - but yes, but i would like to know more about student assumptions. From the point of view of unis - yes that was exactly how we assumed it was going to be and thats why personally I would never (and have never) recommended that students move back into their halls/rentals and do f2f this year. The system as it is set up - will isolate and atomise i.e. its a lockdown but you are a kid and on your own.

How did parents assume it was going to be? Everyone knew the autumn/winter was going to have a 2nd wave (well we never finished the first but whatever) i.e your kids was going to be in lockdown but on their won. 75% of our students came to London and honest to god I have no idea why.....it will be lonely, cold and miserable. I am sympathetic but realistically I am not going to be back on campus until October 2021 and neither are any of the other permanent (well paid and research focused) colleagues so whilst I will try and help my tutees the reality is that am not stepping foot on campus until this blows over. And I live in Zone 1 and can literally walk to work. Crucially - my mangement is not forcing me too. So why the students and their families thought it was a good idea for them to come is beyond me[/quote]
Unis conned the prospective students into thinking there'd be at least some f2f, limited social activities, clubs & societies where possible, plenty of online social activities, gym open etc and were talking about first semester only, at least that's what the web pages said for the uni my son has just gone to. In reality, there's bugger all of anything. The students have been conned just to fill the uni halls and get the tuition fees. It's a bloody disgrace.

I am sympathetic but realistically I am not going to be back on campus until October 2021 and neither are any of the other permanent (well paid and research focused) colleagues so whilst I will try and help my tutees the reality is that am not stepping foot on campus until this blows over.

Is there specific reasons why you and your colleagues aren't likely to be working in the university itself for so long?

I teach so I'm in full time every day with full classes and no SDing. All my teacher friends are including those who teach sixth form so have bubbles of 400-600 16-18yos, so not much younger than students.

I'm clinically vulnerable and have no choice but to work in school. Work from home isn't allowed.

I genuinely didn't realise that university lecturers/tutors wouldn't be able to be in teaching f2f to a decent degree tbh.

Is there specific reasons why you and your colleagues aren't likely to be working in the university itself for so long?

I think that universities are being stricter about social distancing than schools because it is possible to teach to some extent online. I think they were generally expecting to do more face-to-face than they are doing now though. Unfortunately, the alert level went up last week and this has had an impact.

The university I work at had different scenarios in place depending on the alert level so unfortunately what they were hoping to do in August has changed. Therefore the change isn't due to the fact that universities were "conning students " things have actually changed. Hopefully, things will be more normal next term though. The course I teach on involves a lot of labs and practical work. These have been pushed onto the next term but we are fully expecting to do them then.

It feels like universities are getting attacked for being careful and trying to reduce the risk of transmission but are also attacked for the rise in cases in a relatively small number of halls of residence. They can't win . Online teaching isn't cheaper than face-to-face . The universities are not receiving any government support and if they give back money to students then there will be redundancies which will have an impact on teaching and some universities will probably go bankrupt which will have a huge impact on older students not to mention the economy .I'm not sure what people expect Universities to do.

Unis conned the prospective students into thinking there'd be at least some f2f, limited social activities, clubs & societies where possible, plenty of online social activities, gym open etc and were talking about first semester only, at least that's what the web pages said for the uni my son has just gone to. In reality, there's bugger all of anything. The students have been conned just to fill the uni halls and get the tuition fees. It's a bloody disgrace.

That's all happening at DD's University. They are in an area with a low number of cases though (so far). Is that the case at the uni where your son is?

That's all happening at DD's University. They are in an area with a low number of cases though (so far). Is that the case at the uni where your son is?

Same at my DDs uni. They are training for their sport twice a week and organising taster freshers events For next week.

Some classes are f2f in smaller groups.

The only restriction is they are not Allowed in pubs so they organise outdoor events. She’s aware that LOTS of freshers are having parties and not obeying the regulations so it’s not surprising what’s happened.

I don’t understand what people think the uni should do differently?

People seem to be saying “ they should be stricter “ at the same time as complaining when the restrictions affect their child.

The people suggesting they test students on arrival clearly don’t understand how testing works. Even if they were all clear on day one, they could all pick it up the next day when they went to a party.

And I don’t know what to think of the naivety of people saying they are catching it from the handrails in hall. They are all partying and shagging Not your poppet of course but The Others.

Nope, the only thing open are the shops and bars on campus (colleges). Crazy that the students are piling into the campus bars every night without social distancing. It's basically OK if you're a social drinker, but bugger all for the quieter ones.

@user1497207191 that may be the case where your child is but it's hardly universal. Both my dn are doing ok and neither of them are big drinkers. One has basically spent the last week surfing or climbing, the other is a fresher so just finding his feet but is still having a far better time than being stuck back home with mum and dad.

@user1497207191

Nope, the only thing open are the shops and bars on campus (colleges). Crazy that the students are piling into the campus bars every night without social distancing. It's basically OK if you're a social drinker, but bugger all for the quieter ones.

There doesn't need to be social distancing among people in the same household anyway and in most parts of the UK up to 6 people can meet from different households. They aren't breaking the law by going there.

As the social clubs, they are open in universities but they have to be online at the moment unless fewer than six meet. That is the law and not the University's decision.

@Belladonna12 There doesn't need to be social distancing among people in the same household anyway and in most parts of the UK up to 6 people can meet from different households. They aren't breaking the law by going there.

You're missing my point. Uni have closed everything else, even the library, and everything is online, no F2F at all. Not even the offices are open for students to go and see staff in person. Yet, the college bars are open. It's nothing to do with the law. There's no law saying the Uni offices, library, etc have to remain closed to students either. The other point is social distancing is still the law in bars, etc - yet the college bars are making no attempt to police it so students from all different "bubbles" are mixing as if covid didn't exist. How can unis get away with not offering any F2F facilities re academic matters but feel it's "safe" to keep college bars fully open??

I've not read the entire thread but have gotten the gist of most of it.

I work in one of the Unis which is having a massive lockdown of student halls of residence. I'm a lowly administrator in a creative subject area.

The instructions that lecturers were given in April were to prepare all teaching so it can be done 100% online even though the official policy is that we will offer 'hybrid' teaching. Many lecturers assumed that a large proportion of students wouldn't be coming to campus but that has not been the case.

The disconnect has come from way up the chain in the University hierarchy. The communications on the main website for new and returning students during COVID barely mentioned the option of not coming to campus. The wording on the website and of student emails (which are strictly controlled by upper management) were that we would welcome them with open arms and that their safety is our first priority. In none of the official publications that I could find on our website did it explicitly say that we were preparing ALL teaching to be delivered completely online if necessary. I don't know if this was communicated to students at all. There have been many queries from worried students asking if they could/should stay home in semester 1 but no guidance seems to have been prepared by the university other than that we are preparing our campus. Not helpful. Lecturers in my department pointed it out early in the planning process and commented that students would be justifiably angry to come to campus and find out there is little to no on-campus teaching being offered.

Unfortunately, all of this has been well outside mine and my colleagues scope of influence. I'm usually quite proud of where I work but I'm not right now. I think they've been prioritising finances before student experience and student safety. Anyone could have predicted this fiasco. Did they really think that chucking 1000s of students from all over the country and the world into tight accommodation would result in anything else?

This is the biggest YANBU I've ever given.

By closing all the more structured activities where social distancing could have been enforced while students socialised, they’ve increased unregulated socialising and created a greater infection risk. They should have had more activities for students not less. They are all cooped up in halls because there is nothing for them to do.

The government said during lockdown that it increased the risk of transmission within the household, so it is the same with students. By closing down teaching, libraries etc you increase transmission risk in accommodation.

@Stripesgalore

By closing all the more structured activities where social distancing could have been enforced while students socialised, they’ve increased unregulated socialising and created a greater infection risk. They should have had more activities for students not less. They are all cooped up in halls because there is nothing for them to do.

The government said during lockdown that it increased the risk of transmission within the household, so it is the same with students. By closing down teaching, libraries etc you increase transmission risk in accommodation.

But they havn't shut down Uni owned/controlled college bars, cafes, restaurants, etc., which is where students are freely mingling/socialising. It's nonsensical and clearly all about money. Govt needs to get a grip, tell the Unis to close their bars if they can't enforce social distancing and open up teaching/lecturing etc in a socially distanced manner. Rules are 1m plus (i.e. 1 metre plus a mask) so tutorials, seminars, lectures, etc could go ahead based on half usual student numbers. It's as if Unis are still working on the old 2 metre rule where you'd be looking at a quarter of usual numbers. If students are in lectures/seminars etc, in a socially distanced controlled manner, they're not infecting eachother in cramped kitchens, corridors, college bars & common rooms, etc.

They conned students into thinking thre would be a lot face to face right from the start because they wanted the fees and rent to ay the staff but the staff are so left wing or sick or unionised that they won't work face to face until Oct 2021 as one suggests above. As the con is done now on the students those lecturers' pay is in effect guaranteed for this academic year with the students the victims of the con and the beneficiaries being the lecturers who are not being forced back into face to face work unlike so many others on pain of the sack.

It seems absurd when in many disciplines there is a glut of people capable of teaching undergraduates.

Although obviously not all universities are behaving that way. DD is having face to face lectures and seminars.

Err, @Xenia It isn't the Lecturers fault that Universities have mismanaged their response. Students should have been told the truth from the start so they could make an informed choice. Lecturers shouldn't be forced to mingle with large groups of students where the virus is running rampant. They are people too! Some are elderly, some have underlying health problems and many have caring responsibilities. If all the lecturers come down with COVID then Universities will be really screwed.

‘Lecturers shouldn't be forced to mingle with large groups of students where the virus is running rampant. They are people too! Some are elderly, some have underlying health problems and many have caring responsibilities.’

What makes lecturers different from other people back at work in non essential jobs? Are their lives more valuable than mine?

@Stripesgalore, no one should be forced to show-up in person to non-essential jobs if they don't have to. This is part of the reason the UK is doing so poorly in comparison to other countries in controlling the virus.

‘Lecturers shouldn't be forced to mingle with large groups of students where the virus is running rampant.

No more so than teachers, etc.

But teaching staff in schools - many where the students are 17/18 too - have no choice, even if they are clinically vulnerable. Infact even if clinically extremely vulnerable and were previously shielded.

Particularly as some research is now stating to suggest that children and young people are just as likely to spread the virus as older people.

Something more than 2 seminars a week f2f should be happening surely. These kids and young adults, and their parents, have formed our £9k for this education, plus a ton more for accommodation on the basis that they would actually be welcomed back and be able to actually attend lessons, lectures, seminars, etc.

I'm not sure why teaching staff in universities can avoid being in 'in person' when teaching staff in schools all have to be in. It's a darn sight easier to social distanced and ask for masks in a university that in most school classrooms too.

Sorry Aragog but are you saying you want your dd in a lecture theatre with 300 other students? If she's that blase about catching COVID then she should be fine in halls, shouldn't she?

They can’t put a student in a lecture hall with 300 other students unless they have capacity to social distance 300. Otherwise they would have to split them up into smaller groups.

All the people who have returned to work or worked throughout have had to deal with these issues of how to keep themselves and the public within social distancing regulations.

Yet universities, who are supposed to represent an intellectual elite, can’t organise it?

Well they have organised it, havent they - they're delivering it online.

I can understand students feeling shortchanged about practical and tutorials not happening f2f but I dont see the benefit of lectures being given in this way. Big increase in risk and marginal if any benefits.

[quote Badbadbunny]**@Belladonna12* There doesn't need to be social distancing among people in the same household anyway and in most parts of the UK up to 6 people can meet from different households. They aren't breaking the law by going there.*

You're missing my point. Uni have closed everything else, even the library, and everything is online, no F2F at all. Not even the offices are open for students to go and see staff in person. Yet, the college bars are open. It's nothing to do with the law. There's no law saying the Uni offices, library, etc have to remain closed to students either. The other point is social distancing is still the law in bars, etc - yet the college bars are making no attempt to police it so students from all different "bubbles" are mixing as if covid didn't exist. How can unis get away with not offering any F2F facilities re academic matters but feel it's "safe" to keep college bars fully open??[/quote]
I don't know any universities where the libraries are totally closed although some only opened yesterday. You do have to book in advance if you want to work there as obviously they have to limit the numbers. When you say "college bars", do you mean Oxford or Cambridge? Most universities don't have college bars. They are not all the same.

If there are no real benefits to lectures in person, why were students ever made to attend them?

I don't think universities have been allowed to do lectures without social distancing anyway. The students are not as young as schoolchildren and could potentially be more at risk if you crowded them all into lecture theatre. I personally wouldn't feel at risk as I could stand well back but the students would be.