Lack of progression for part time workers

[kiranhpp]

Women get treated like shit on return to work , going from full time to part time, it's like put up shut up earn your money stop complaining you are not progressing just enjoy being a mum.

I can't put you on that course I'm afraid your part time

Agree. My career came to a halt..... I can't move anywhere within my organisation due to being part time.

One of the reasons I went back full time.

I'm sorry, that's ridiculous. Of course going part time means you won't progress - if you had a choice over who would get a new role, why would you pick the person who isn't there half the time over the person who is there all the time? Why would you invest money in someone who is only going to use those skills 2 days a week when you could invest the same amount and get a full 5 days of benefit instead? You can't be a manager if you're only available to your team on Tuesdays and Thursdays, you can't take on additional responsibilities if you're going to hand them off several days a week. It's a continuity nightmare.

You're not being treated like shit because you're a mum. You're being treated like a part time worker because you only work part time.

@Ohalrightthen

I'm sorry, that's ridiculous. Of course going part time means you won't progress - if you had a choice over who would get a new role, why would you pick the person who isn't there half the time over the person who is there all the time? Why would you invest money in someone who is only going to use those skills 2 days a week when you could invest the same amount and get a full 5 days of benefit instead? You can't be a manager if you're only available to your team on Tuesdays and Thursdays, you can't take on additional responsibilities if you're going to hand them off several days a week. It's a continuity nightmare.

You're not being treated like shit because you're a mum. You're being treated like a part time worker because you only work part time.

Agree.

This has nothing to do with being a mum and applies to all part-time workers who are not parents, too.

Of course choosing to go part-time is going to limit opportunities.

@Ohalrightthen I disagree.

Where I work it's 12.5 shifts so full time is 3 of those and part time (25 hours) is 2. I see the part timers not allowed on courses or allowed extra responsibilities and the bosses say well your not full time your not accessible to me .
Hmmm what by one extra day

I work 4 out of 5 days.

I think I'm worth investing in.

@SueEllenMishke

One of the reasons I went back full time.

Same!

I work for a big company and have seen women return part time after maternity into a promotion. And two women have a very senior level job share. It’s in a conpany’s own interest to progress the right people.

However... I think that a part timer won’t always be a great fit for progression.

Each case on its merit.

I think it spends where you work and what you do. I’m a manager and work three days a week, but already held that position before pregnancy.

@Ohalrightthen @TokenGinger

Taken from the part time workers rights "Part-time workers should get the same treatment for:
• pay ratess_ (including sick pay, maternity, paternity and adoption leave and pay)
• pension opportunities and benefits
• holidayss_
• training and career development
• selection for promotion and transfer, or for redundancyy_
• opportunities for career breaks"

A lot of part time workers where I work - they definitely get passed over for extra responsibility- and they seem very happy with that TBH, one of the perks of being PT.

I heard a mum say she was returning after mat leave and unfortunately had to take a pay cut as had to go down a grade for part time - why are we doing this to women!! It's disgraceful.

@Ohalrightthen

I'm sorry, that's ridiculous. Of course going part time means you won't progress - if you had a choice over who would get a new role, why would you pick the person who isn't there half the time over the person who is there all the time? Why would you invest money in someone who is only going to use those skills 2 days a week when you could invest the same amount and get a full 5 days of benefit instead? You can't be a manager if you're only available to your team on Tuesdays and Thursdays, you can't take on additional responsibilities if you're going to hand them off several days a week. It's a continuity nightmare.

You're not being treated like shit because you're a mum. You're being treated like a part time worker because you only work part time.

I'd have to agree.

Rightly or wrongly, people see part-time workers as less committed, and while that may not be true it doesn't make business sense to invest loads in a worker that is not going to show the results of that investment every day.

@Ohalrightthen I think you are being ridiculous! There are solutions such as job shares etc which can work well and bring benefits to the company. The whole 9-5 attitude is so old fashioned, the idea you must be in work for 8 hours to be able to do your job when flexible working has benefits for everyone, and allows people a life outside of the office/fulfil caring responsibilities.

Agree it completely discriminates against women particularly. Even if your FT day is relatively straightforward and finishes at 5.30, getting back to childminder/nursery/after school club before they finish at 6 (again, f you are lucky) is a nightmare. Of course, there are plenty of FT mums with an arsenal of childcare solutions from GPs, family, friends, nanny's etc but the optons for most are limited hours, meaning it's PT and no career.

@rightmoo or you get your partner to do his share too?

Why would they progress a part timer over a full timer? They're there half the time, so what's the benefit of that? It's nothing to do with being a Mum.

@SpilltheTea so at my company full time is 3 x 12.5 shifts and part time is 2 x 25 shifts
So why should someone who does one less day not have access to the same responsibilities and training opportunities?

@SpilltheTea sorry I mean part time is 2 x 12.5 shifts totalling 25 hours

[quote joyfuldee]@SpilltheTea so at my company full time is 3 x 12.5 shifts and part time is 2 x 25 shifts
So why should someone who does one less day not have access to the same responsibilities and training opportunities?[/quote]
It’s one day less, but 1/3rd of the hours less. Training won’t be 2/3rds the cost. That’s a big difference in return on investment.

[quote oranemaiden]**@Ohalrightthen* @TokenGinger*

Taken from the part time workers rights "Part-time workers should get the same treatment for:
• pay ratess_ (including sick pay, maternity, paternity and adoption leave and pay)
• pension opportunities and benefits
• holidayss_
• training and career development
• selection for promotion and transfer, or for redundancyy_
• opportunities for career breaks"

[/quote]
I didn't say that don't have equal access. I said they limit opportunities. The majority of progression opportunities require full-time workers, so therefore if you require part-time hours, your opportunities are limited.

I think it’s fair enough that you’re not going to progress as much or be offered as much investment in terms of training etc. You’re simply not working as much as a full-time worker and not worth as much economically.

If progression is important during your child-rearing years and you also want someone at home for the kids, then make sure to choose a father who’s willing work part-time.

These attitudes also discriminate against people with disabilities.

It's unlawful.

@MoreToExplore

I think it’s fair enough that you’re not going to progress as much or be offered as much investment in terms of training etc. You’re simply not working as much as a full-time worker and not worth as much economically.

If progression is important during your child-rearing years and you also want someone at home for the kids, then make sure to choose a father who’s willing work part-time.

Thank youuuuu! All this bullshit about how XYZ disadvantages women - no, it disadvantages women who let the fathers of their kids get away with doing fuck all. If you choose an equal partner in parenting, your disadvantage shrinks remarkably.

IME 4 days a week (or 80%) of hours doesn’t seem to be a barrier, more than that does (for most roles).

To an extent I can see why. If you’re managing a team, it doesn’t work if you’re only there 3 days a week. It’s also very frustrating if I need something urgently from one of my more senior managers and it’s their day off, I also don’t want the aggro of having to play PA because X doesn’t work Thursdays and Y doesn’t work Wednesdays.

Equally job share in senior positions doesn’t work in my team. They spend at least 1hr per week doing a handover and then each person has different opinions on a project for example which then takes a further 2 hours for them to agree on an approach. Unless the role is very task based e.g. each looking after certain clients it just doesn’t work.