Lack of progression for part time workers

[kiranhpp]

Women get treated like shit on return to work , going from full time to part time, it's like put up shut up earn your money stop complaining you are not progressing just enjoy being a mum.

I agree and disagree.

I think it totally depends on your employer and on your line manager.

My previous organisation and line-manager made part-time working extremely difficult for many reasons and used it as a reason for being unable to progress.

Eventually left and my new experience with my current employer couldn’t be more different. Better pay, better working conditions, way more responsibility, flexible working policy and very family friendly. That’s over 22 hours.

In fact they have offered me a promotion within a few months of me being there and because they are so supportive I actually wanted to go full-time in my next role. They’ve made it so easy and let me work my hours around the kids and have really encouraged me to progress.

You're completely right. And it can be very frustrating. Not everyone works part time because they want to do what they've always done and not change or progress. And there are always more than one part timer so potentially job sharing could occur. It does ultimately depend on the requirements of the role which I appreciate, but not offering training as "you're only part time" and not offering side step in roles as they only want full time staff is unnecessary

I also agree with posters who have championed the role of partners. Me and my partner have always shared childcare between us. When I went back full time after having DD1 DH worked 2 days a week and stayed at home on 3. Currently I work 3 days and he works 4 days. We’re going to see how it goes with me going full time but he has said that if we find it too much of a juggle he will request to drop a day.

We agree that it’s important we can contribute different things at different times, no lesser or greater worth, depending on what the family/professional/financial needs are.

If you’ve worked for the employer/sector for years it’s very much in their interest to retain those skills. That’s why it makes sense to progress ppl regardless of FTE as a woman returning PT will bring loads of experience and is more likely to stay with you.

Secondly it’s quite clearly indirect sex discrimination not to.

That’s not been my experience at all. I do 4 days though, perhaps there’s a tipping point in employers eyes? There shouldn’t be but sadly something is blocking many women’s potential. I do think being very proactive in changing employers every so often has helped me access the training I need and progress through the grades more rapidly than if I’d just stayed put.

Part timers in public sector jobs generally get an annual increment (up to the top rate of their grade) which is there to reflect experience in the job, even though they’ve only done whatever % of full time hours. So there is that. But agree promotion is much harder. And changing jobs.

I also think people who have cut their hours for caring reasons should have first refusal to increase their hours back to full time if more hours in the post they are doing becomes available e.g. if a full time colleague leaves. It’s great that employers have to consider reduced hours for people with young kids. But if you can’t get full time hours back say when your child goes to school you can get stuck with part time. Employees who have not taken such leave don’t have to compete to keep their job, I think it does discriminate against women (as they are more likely to take reduced hours) that they do have to compete to regain those hours if they become available.

@Zebrasandfairytales so do you find yourself being held back beings that you only work 3 days?

Thank youuuuu! All this bullshit about how XYZ disadvantages women - no, it disadvantages women who let the fathers of their kids get away with doing fuck all. If you choose an equal partner in parenting, your disadvantage shrinks remarkably.

Whoooosh!

Part time my whole career as had kids.young. on exact same level as another women I trained with who has worked full time throughout. So impact at all here. Bit less choice sometimes as part time was important to me but certainly not impossible

@joyfuldee I definitely felt that in my previous role but not in my current role. Im a Project Manager though so don’t need to line manage for example. I have delivered the current phase of my project ahead of timescales and made really good progress. My manager and stakeholders have been very supportive and encouraged me to go for promotions!

I really do feel strongly that your manager, organisational policies and approach and culture make a huge difference.

I definitely got taken less seriously when I was part time (4 days out of 5, my husband did 4 days out of 5 too). It’s just backward thinking. I’m going to have a young child for maybe five years of my 40 year career.

@Ohalrightthen

I'm sorry, that's ridiculous. Of course going part time means you won't progress - if you had a choice over who would get a new role, why would you pick the person who isn't there half the time over the person who is there all the time? Why would you invest money in someone who is only going to use those skills 2 days a week when you could invest the same amount and get a full 5 days of benefit instead? You can't be a manager if you're only available to your team on Tuesdays and Thursdays, you can't take on additional responsibilities if you're going to hand them off several days a week. It's a continuity nightmare.

You're not being treated like shit because you're a mum. You're being treated like a part time worker because you only work part time.

Absolutely this.

@bellajay yes I agree regarding being taken less seriously . I had a colleague ask me " how's it going changing nappies?"after I had a few days off. Suddenly felt like that's all they saw me as.

I don't understand people saying you can't be a manager if you only work a few days a week, I've had plenty of managers who only work part time, and it's quite common for senior members of staff where I work to do so as well. It's literally never been a problem.

@Ohalrightthen

Ok I'll bite...

Cause life is always that simple isn't it?

What about single mums who don't have any support? Childcare is expensive, I do get your sentiment but it's not always as simple as just 'choosing a partner who will take on childcare too', is it?

There is such a thing as nuance, circumstance, that's real life and whether you like it or not mothers are being disadvantaged here.

Thank youuuuu! All this bullshit about how XYZ disadvantages women - no, it disadvantages women who let the fathers of their kids get away with doing fuck all. If you choose an equal partner in parenting, your disadvantage shrinks remarkably. I agree completely. Fathers need to be as prepared and committed as mothers. We took shared parental leave and equal time off for illness. But I find so many women don't want to share it and won't entertain both doing 4days per week. Instead they want full mat leave then 2 or 3 days at work with the benefit of working 5 days per week .

@Chocoqueen it’s easier for a senior manager to be PT. Middle manager I think is harder and it also depends on the role. How would someone manage a credit control team (for example) part time?

But surely if you both go part time ( day 4 days) both of you are then going to be held back career wise. So you both become stagnant and don't earn much

Of course you can line manage staff if you work part time

But if you line manage part time, then on your non working days, your pastoral management responsibilities usually shift onto your manager, I can see why that’s not an attractive prospect.

It works fine for us. I'm sure it very much depends on the type of work

@StealthPolarBear

Of course you can line manage staff if you work part time

You might be able to, i absolutely wouldnt, nor would any of the managers in my company, or any company I've ever worked for.

I'm in te civil service. Most of my team are part time. Many of them are line managers. Must depend very much on culture andv the type of work.

@StealthPolarBear

I'm in te civil service. Most of my team are part time. Many of them are line managers. Must depend very much on culture andv the type of work.

Yes, it would appear so. In my line of work being a manager involves a great deal of day to day responsibility and oversight, as i think most managerial roles do.

I think as a general rule you can't expect the norms of the civil service to translate to the rest of the working world, from what I've been told by relatives at the donut, it's pretty much through the looking glass.

If a role is full time then it’s not suitable for part time person to be promoted into unless there also happens to be another equally suitable candidate to do the rest of the hours. Even then you have the issue of 2 people doing 1 job which can work brilliantly or can be a disaster.