Lack of progression for part time workers

[kiranhpp]

Women get treated like shit on return to work , going from full time to part time, it's like put up shut up earn your money stop complaining you are not progressing just enjoy being a mum.

Total agree with the Sue and the other PPs. It really saddens me to read all these comments that can’t appreciate the benefits that PT/job share/flexible working can achieve
If we keep a closed mind then nothing will ever change.

We do a couple of things that have really worked well for us -most of our mid-level leaders don’t work alone, they are “2 in a box”- whether part time or not, it has worked really well from a development perspective, enabling leaders to focus on the areas they are strongest at, brings a joint sense of accountability and difference perspectives to decision making, and also provides continuity all year round.
And all this talk about needing to be present makes no sense at all for our business which is a digital marketplace and operates 24 hours a day 365 days a year - in that context, no one is “full time”. In fact part time work at all levels is really well suited to this kind of environment where we need to cover every hour of the day.

@ceeveebee has it right - I agree with her.

I think the fact that you have to work overtime on your days off is a pretty good illustration of why the majority of managerial roles don't work for part time employees but full time managers are also working overtime with even less breathing space? It's my nwd today but I've taken the decision to do a call later so something can be moved along while I'm away. If I was a full time employee I might have chosen to do that yesterday and work late hours last night on something else. There's always more that can be done. As it was, I did bedtime with my kids, am having my day off (mostly) and my team is supported. My life is in balance, my employer gets 100% of my good advice and expertise, and really the only issue is I should be paid more, because the value I bring is more than my fte pro rata!

I’m a senior manger on 3 days a week

I had to do full time hours to begin with and then requested part time hours due to health issues of my child

I’ve been doing it about 3 years now

I feel I do a good job of it but the business owners would prefer me full time and do make comments and now don’t include me in certain ‘management events or meetings’

The way they treat me as a lesser manager than others because of my hours rather than my performance which is more than the full time staff makes me frustrated and I will change jobs as soon as the right opportunity comes around

My manager works 3 days a week and still earns more part time than I do full time. I'll be dropping to 3 days a week after my maternity leave with number 2 ends. Mainly my because as with many couples my husband earns more than me and we simply can't afford 2 lots of full time childcare. I'm not so bothered though I've been there 20 years so I'm not too ambitious anyway.

Not all promotions involve management responsibilities though. I've been promoted in the past to a senior role but didn't manage anyone- thankfully! I worked 2.5 days per week.

I went back PT and didn't get promoted for four years. Went FT and have been promoted three times in two years.

@SueEllenMishke

Thank youuuuu! All this bullshit about how XYZ disadvantages women - no, it disadvantages women who let the fathers of their kids get away with doing fuck all. If you choose an equal partner in parenting, your disadvantage shrinks remarkably.

Yet another thread full of people who don't understand how deeply ingrained societal expectations and structural barriers impact women's ability to participate and progress in the labour market.....

So depressing.

Instead of blaming women for choosing poor partners ( if only it were that simple) and choosing to work part time ( again, not that simple) we should be addressing and challenging the expectations and barriers women face - especially when they have a child.

This. There are so many complex societal factors at play here that it's naive to reduce these issues to ones of individual choice. These include:

-professions dominated by women tend to be lower paid and devalued, therefore when couples make financial decisions they are likely to preserve the higher earner's full time salary (often the male)
-societal expectations of women as primary caregivers, not just of children but also of any relatives needing care
-workplaces being organised around the needs and availabilities of those in charge (typically middle-aged white men - ironically many of these men are able to advance because of the sacrifices of their partner)
-a working culture where presenteeism and clocking up hours is seen as desirable rather than output

My boss always says 'nothing is that urgent, no one's going to die'. If your business really can't cater for people not being available for 1 or 2 days a week, maybe it's time to rethink how you work.

@AriettyHomily

I went back PT and didn't get promoted for four years. Went FT and have been promoted three times in two years.

I went back part time and got promoted, then changed employers (part time) and then got promoted again twice. Still part time now 8 years later. So everyone’s experience is different

ceeveebee do you mind me asking what role you do? And how you found your part time jobs? Were they specifically advertised as part time? Thanks

I’m in governance, risk and compliance - my team covers board governance, risk management, legal, GDPR, FCA compliance etc, and I’m on the leadership team - it’s a large digital business
I initially came back part time after maternity leave, then when I found my new job it was advertised as full time but I persuaded them at interview to do it on a part time basis. I’m now frequently approached by recruiters on LinkedIn and email etc and they nearly always say flexible and part time considered for most roles.

Agencies for part time roles that I have used when recruiting
www.gpsreturn.co.uk/
www.timewisejobs.co.uk/
capabilityjane.com/
And Mumsnet of course - in face I recruited a part time lawyer through here a couple of years ago who happens to be a man

@ceeveebee do you have any job ideas for a nurse wanting to leave the profession and take on office based role with transferrable skills ( not myself , a friend ) part time

I think things are very slowly changing as more men start to ask for part time/flexible working. I used to see plenty of dads at nursery pick up time.

@boldprintsanono

I'm the product owner in an Agile structure for an in house IT team. We have a developer who works part time and is unhappy she's not getting exposure to more challenging work. The issue is the business need their improvements delivered ASAP. If we need to workshop requirements or showcase on days she doesn't work because it's the only day we can get the majority of the key stakeholders together due to their schedules (as opposed to PT working) she can't partake, there's just not the continuity and we don't deliver to standard or on time.

She's a good developer but often when a bug arises it needs fixing there and then and if she's not around, someone else will pick up and follow through, then their name gets known and they become the go to person.

A few senior roles do work compressed hours and if I schedule something during the time they don't work (because I can't keep track of who works when) then more often than not they'll join in.

This is a very valid point. If you are a task worker, or even a task worker managing other task workers, it becomes very hard when you are not in the office/available. There are some things that need to be done right then and there eg massive IT failure. Or would you like to wait till the person is back in.

Also, if you work part time and on your days off, your work has to be picked up by someone else, I don't think they'd be very happy if you got promoted overt them.

A few times I have encountered situations where a part-time worker was promoted as it was cheaper than promoting a full-time worker. These tended to be roles where the extra responsibility was planning and/or technical rather than direct supervision. In one case the assistant manager was part-time but worked full time when the manager was on holiday.

@Cocomarine

I work for a big company and have seen women return part time after maternity into a promotion. And two women have a very senior level job share. It’s in a conpany’s own interest to progress the right people.

However... I think that a part timer won’t always be a great fit for progression.

Each case on its merit.

Wondering if we work for same company as I was going to say the same

[quote locketpol]@ceeveebee do you have any job ideas for a nurse wanting to leave the profession and take on office based role with transferrable skills ( not myself , a friend ) part time [/quote]
I would imagine there would be lots of transferable skills but I’m not hugely familiar with the nursing profession so probably not the best person to ask! Perhaps looking at some of the job boards I posted for inspiration? Personally I think pretty much any sector can offer part time roles but from this thread there are clearly some people who think otherwise.

Actually I think you’re lucky to have a job that will accept you back part time. It’s inconvenient for the employer because you’re not available all the time. My employer simply said we can’t accommodate part time workers, you either do your full time job or quit.

I was passed over for a night shift supervisor because of my part time hours. But I was always expected to step up when the supervisor was off. Would sometimes work 3 hours extra to cover before the day shift would turn up.

It's true. My employer internally advertised a new senior post and encouraged me to apply. I was concerned about being able to work more than 30 hours, so I asked about the possibility of job sharing with another experienced colleague. (Also pointing out that one piece of the work didn't require a senior level worker).

It was a big nope, so the job went to external recruitment. Meanwhile a much less experienced colleague was awarded an equivalent post in her section of the county. She didn't even have to interview. But she doesn't have kids and can work full time.

Part time working doesn't necessarily mean not working every day.

I work 5 days per week, ideally between school hours, and still pick up the phone and answer emails after hours. Inevitably, I end up doing more than my contracted hours.

They can decide to invest in a less experienced person who works full time. That's their prerogative.

Likewise, when I've finished my further training, and have sought funding for a marketable project, I won't necessarily decide to offer it to them.

It depends on whether the higher role can be done part time I guess!

If you’re in the private sector, I imagine they will take the line of least resistance and promote the person who can do the whole job and doesn’t require another person to be appointed for the remaining days.

If you are in the public sector like me I think they can’t discriminate and have to interview who passes the board on application everyone even if part time , but I can see why it’s a nightmare.

I’m full time and always have been though.

I'm a CEO and work 28 hours per week. It works for my organisation and it works for me, although I wasn't looking for part time until this role came up. In future I will actively look for 30 hours or less and will aim to negotiate down from posts advertised as full time hours.

As a previous poster said it is common in charities, often due to costs but also because of the culture (depending on the charity!). My team are a mix of part and full time workers and they are all exceptionally good at what they do.

do you have any job ideas for a nurse wanting to leave the profession and take on office based role with transferrable skills ( not myself , a friend ) part time

Has she/he thought about something in NHS management? Many nurses I know have ended up in project manager/quality improvement type roles and often on higher bands than they were nursing.

Pre covid I'd also suggest jobs with the medical charities like CRUK, Macmillan or BHF but they've taken a battering with lack Of fundraising so aren't really recruiting at the moment. In fact most seem to be making people redundant.

I'd suggest having a look around the admin and clerical part of NHS jobs - the title of the section is disingenuous- but they will get some idea of what jobs there are and what they could do.

@locketpol
Have a look at local authority jobs. I worked in a multiagency team where there were children's disability social workers, school nurses, specialist teachers and education welfare officers, and our team manager was an ex nurse.