To have a baby with my platonic friend?

[themoodypurples]

Will refer to friend as N. I met N at university when we were 18. There was a group of us, all very tightknit and close. I dropped out after 1 year due to a family crisis and mental and N was the only one who kept in touch and cared about me. He was wonderful and we have been incredibly close ever since. N is gay and we are now 28. I have a 4 year old son, I was in a relationship with DS's father from 2 years before he was born until just before I had DS. I discovered he had cheated and dumped him. However he has always been a good, attentive father to DS and I have no complaints about my DS's dad as a coparent. N has also been a great support with DS over the years and I trust him completely with DS. DS adores N.

I haven't bothered looking for a relationship since the debacle of DS's dad. I'm not against a relationship if somebody shows up and it's right and natural, but I'm not actively looking for one. Nothing has occured on that front and I've been happy enough focusing on myself and DS. N has had various relationships over the years, the longest being 2 years. He wants a life partner to settle down with but none of his relationships worked out. He gets quite downtrodden about it, he's financially in a great place, owns a 2 bedroom lovely flat, plenty of disposable income etc and I think he wants somebody to share all of that with now. But relationships just haven't worked out for him.

I'm less well off, I'm on 15k a year. However DS has now started school (hopefully that lasts...Covid permitting!) so I'm no longer having to pay childchare costs as school covers most of it and his dad picks up the rest of the time. I rent a 2 bed HA house. I will be honest and say that I am incredibly broody. Don't care about a new relationship but I'd give anything for another child and to give DS a sibling. He looks so lonely sometimes. I honestly think I could cope providing the baby had a good supportive father.

N is also in a similar position in that he would like to get on with being a parent now regardless of his relationship status. I know he would make a brilliant father. We had quite a long, deep conversation about it a few months ago. I ended up saying to N that I'd be willing to be his surrogate once things with Covid calmed down and he was very keen and we agreed to get the ball rolling once it was possible. My pregnancy with DS was textbook and easy, except for his dad being a twat. However I've had months to mull it over and have come to the conclusion I would find it very upsetting to carry and give up a baby considering I want another one so much myself. I suggested to N a few weeks ago that perhaps we could have a baby and raise him/her together as coparents. He says he likes the idea but needs time to think it over because he wouldn't want it to affect our friendship if we had disagreements etc. He is warming to the idea though.

The reason I am asking is because I have seen the look on the faces of my mother and other friends when I have mentioned it to them. Surely it's not so awful?

I agree that as you both want to be active parents, it wont work.

You as a surrogate, him as parent. Fine.

Him as donor, you as parent. Fine.

You both as co-parents, negotiating new relationships etc. Wont end well.

I really wouldnt. Not least because it will end your friendship due to financial fall outs. If you want a baby then have one, through a sperm donor (officially, dont do it on the sly by getting PG "accidentally on purpose) and he should do the same with an official surrogate (not with your eggs).

This idea has FUCK UP written all over it. Who cares what happens with your friendship? This potential shared child will be on the Stately Homes thread in 20 year as sure as eggs is eggs.

Let your head do the thinking not your hormones.

You are not in a good financial position to consider having another child, you also have some unrealistic ideas about the future. He wants to be a father but you seem to want an”uncle” figure. It is a disaster in the making, do not forget he would have as many rights as a father as you as a mother, the difference in salary may be a blessing when it comes to child maintenance but might be a problem when one of the kids is offered a more affluent life than the other one?

Maybe I'm old fashioned, but I think having a child is something which should happen within the confines of a loving partnership - not simply because you want one. There are too many things which could go wrong in this scenario - as many posters have already pointed out.

R9emer a child is a human being with thier own life.

They're not just something to make because your broody and bored and expect the tax payer to pick up the tab for.

And presumably some therapist to help sort out once they're grown up and have to work out this mess of a family situation and upbringing especialy once N meets a bloke gets bored and fucks off

Tbh OP with the "no overnights for a year" and "I'd want to vet any partner" you sound a bit like you are setting N up to effectively be a sperm donor for you and have a friendly uncle style relationship with the child, like he does with your son

You couldn’t enforce any of these conditions. And if he is as well off as you say he is he’d have the means to force it through the courts. Also, you would be limiting yourself to the area you currently live in - what if you want to move for job/better schools/live by the coast etc etc.
You’re so young. You would be better placed setting yourself up with qualifications and some financial security rather than thinking about the gift of a baby to your lonely gay friend. Because that’s how it reads.

An awful idea is my opinion on this.
Bad enough a relationship breakdown and having to Seperate a child from a mum or dad without creating this artificial separation because you two just quite fancy a baby and you're bloody.
Beyond selfish.
You can't afford the baby to start with. You make it sound like he's on a good wage and owns a house so that's ok.
You need to think about the legal ramifications, if he'll pay you child maintenance? If Mr Right comes along for either of you and you want more kids, that'll be a fun time, 3 sets of dad's.
What a mess.

And as for vetting potential partners, that'll be a hoot. What you going to say, no you can't date them? I disapprove?

Sorry op. I think you're looking for a hole to be filled and this is not the way to do it.

Goodness I’m surprised that people think the whole concept in the abstract is unacceptable or selfish.

Two of my male gay friends have done this to have children - one with a single straight woman, one with a lesbian in a relationship.

What have the PPs’ gay friends done when having children? They can’t all be lesbians who’ve been able to use IVF. What have your gay male friends done? They’ve all used surrogates?

Astonished this is seen as so unusual as to be abhorrent.

No, it's selfish to the child to be split between homes before they've even been born, you cannot afford it, you only have 2 bedrooms, he wanted a surrogate not a co-parent, you won't be able to vet his partners- he can see who he likes, if he's rich he could take you to court and get overnights and whatever else.

YABU, get rescue puppy to share, babies aren’t toys to share.

which posts seem to you to be implying this idea is “abhorrent”?

OP’s friend’s sexuality/options for becoming a father isn’t a key issue.

Umm no if you want a baby but no man buy some sperm and self inseminate

He was happy for you to be a surrogate but needs to think about being a parent with you think about that for awhile will you

I may go against the grain here and say it isnt a terrible idea.

N has been a constant in both yours and your sons life. Hes clearly reliable and cares.

There are people who have one night stands and dad is never involved at all, or relationships simply break down and dad is nowhere to be seen. N doesnt sound like he would leave you or child.

If you both together feel 100% commitment, and N will offer support both physically and financially and be a present parent I'd say go for it.

I don't inherently think it's a bad idea for two people to coparent in this way; I think it can potentially work well. And I'm certainly not opposed to non-traditional families - I'm single and my baby was donor conceived. However, I do have some concerns about your plan.

First off, the fact that you leapt to suggest being a surrogate for N and then walked it back suggests you aren't always thinking things through when it comes to this topic. Not that that's uncommon - fertile people quite often speak about wanting to assist those who are not able to conceive themselves, and then aren't actually willing to when they realise what's involved, so you're far from alone in that. But I think you need to bear in mind that there's a considerable power differential between you and N right now, where he literally cannot produce a baby without significant help from another person, while you can do so with minimal help. If he's really keen to have a family, he may agree to things he's not really happy about, rather than rock the boat. That won't go well as time goes on.

Which brings us to how you each envisage this arrangement working. Immediately, with your expectation that the baby would stay with you overnight for at least a year, you'd be relegating him to - at best - the status of secondary parent (or, as others have pointed out, a sort of fun uncle figure). It's possible he may genuinely be on board with that, but consider how you'd feel if he proposed the opposite arrangement - he'd take baby overnight, every night, from the beginning? But it's OK, because you'd be able to see them every day...? Clearly, you'd hate it. Most likely he would also hate what you're proposing. And that's just one thing - you guys would need to work through this stuff with every aspect of your child's life.

I think you've got the nail on the head when you've said that you're feeling broody. Nothing wrong with that, but it's important to recognise that this is probably being driven more by the broodiness then by a desire to provide a sibling for your son or a child for N. And, as others have said, your financial position makes this a challenging plan, too.

What I would recommend is that you and N both go and get counselling, both separately and together, from someone with experience in dealing with fertility-related issues. (Look for someone accredited by the British Infertility Counselling Association). See what this throws up and how you both feel once you've had some support in thinking it through. Then, if you still feel you'd like to go ahead, you should both take some legal advice and look into drafting a coparenting agreement before trying to conceive - again, using legal advisors familiar with these matters (someone like these guys: www.ngalaw.co.uk/donor-conception-and-co-parenting who are familiar with relevant aspects of the law).

If at that point you're still both on board, great! Go ahead and best of luck. But I don't think you should just dive into this without going through those steps first - you'd be doing yourself, your friendship, and your potential future child a disservice.

@Dozer

Crazy plan. You already have a DC, can’t afford DC2, and risk of problems in your relationship with your friend is high.

This You dont owe this to your gay friend.

If you do meet somebody you love, having two children with two dads will complicate things.

Keep your life simple by focusing on improving your financial situation.

It never works out how you think it will. You cant MAKE a man take 50% of the responsibility. Y
Gay or straight.

It's not a bad idea exactly but you are not in a position to afford another child currently. You are in a ha property aka subsidised and are relying on your ex to pay childcare costs, what if he stops paying? Babies cost a lot more in childcare. Coparenting means you paying 50% of costs, you don't have it.

You are young, you need to establish a career first

Firstly, I don't think that the heterosexual parents, nuclear family model is the only or best way to have children, so my response is not saying this.

However, I'm afraid I don't think this sounds well considered. Your friend approached you looking for a surrogate, wanting to be a full time father.

Completely understandable that this would not work for you, I couldn't do it except maybe for my very immediate family.

It doesn't sound as though he would be happy with a part time arrangement and would you really be?

My feeling here is that you're very young to do this. Both of you have time to either meet a life partner or have a child through a donor or surrogate and be a single parent. If in say 10 years you feel this is the best option, that would be different. I just feel there is too much scope for life to move on at 28. What if one of you wanted or needed to move for work? Hardly fair on the child.

You can't realistically vet someone's new partner and have any say in whether they see them. If it gets serious and they get married, that person will become the baby's step parent. You can't change that. What then if you didn't approve?

Also, this would be a big financial stretch for you on 15k and if access was shared, you wouldn't get much help from the dad. I know it isn't all about money but I would be looking at what I wanted to do with my career, making my life more comfortable financially now that your son is in school, and also maybe looking for a partner a bit more proactively, maybe OLD or similar.

If you still wanted to have a baby yourself then possibly looking at a sperm donor. As I say, I'm sure a non traditional family like this could work, I just don't get the feeling it's what either party here really wants and you both have time on your side.

Would you marry and live together? If having a child together is something you both very much want then you could do that.

I’m another single parent of a donor-conceived child so I’m strongly supportive of non-nuclear family models. However, I agree with Persipan that you need specialist counselling and legal advice on the potential implications if you’re seriously considering going ahead with this. To be honest, I went with an anonymous donor for that reason. A very close platonic male friend proposed that we have a baby together but I wouldn’t have wanted to jump in without formalising the arrangement, and there’s a good chance that that would have damaged our friendship in the long run (which would have been a disaster for co-parenting).

Why so much horrible judgement in this thread?

I don't understand the accusations of selfishness..... NOBODY has a child for altruistic reasons! The only Legitimate reason for having a child is because you want one! It's no more selfish than anybody else who has ever chosen to have a child. And the large majority of children in the world are born in less stable circumstances than this one would be.

And financially, how bloody snotty! Are we really saying that somebody earning 15k a year isn't allowed to have a child? Never mind the fact that there is a father lined up who earns a lot more and owns his own place..., so their combined income is probably more than average.

OP, of course there are many pitfalls to this plan - there are to almost any, and this is unconventional so will get people being judgey...

Think it through, talk it through, don't be romantic about it, and I would take the decision slowly.... but ignore the condemning posts - you have done nothing wrong.

OP has one child. She’s 28, so has the option to seek to increase her income. She can’t afford another DC without benefits and/or maintenance from the child’s father. Many, many fathers pay v little or no maintenance.

I should clarify that I think this kind of arrangement can work, but a lot depends on the circumstances and personalities involved. My friend is a really good guy and will be a great dad one day, but he’s a bit of a dreamer. We work really well together as friends but add a child to the mix and there’s a good chance that I’d have ended up as the sole “grown-up” in the co-parenting arrangement, which was the last thing I wanted!!!

You are exceptionally lucky to have one healthy child. Count your blessings. You aren’t in a financial position to provide for another. Utter madness.

I think it's a lovely idea. You obviously have great communication with your friend, and it means your son and new baby won't be too far apart in age. You already know what he's like with children. Just make sure you work out the practicalities - what happens if one of you wants to move away somewhere else? etc

@BraveGoldie

Why so much horrible judgement in this thread?

I don't understand the accusations of selfishness..... NOBODY has a child for altruistic reasons! The only Legitimate reason for having a child is because you want one! It's no more selfish than anybody else who has ever chosen to have a child. And the large majority of children in the world are born in less stable circumstances than this one would be.

And financially, how bloody snotty! Are we really saying that somebody earning 15k a year isn't allowed to have a child? Never mind the fact that there is a father lined up who earns a lot more and owns his own place..., so their combined income is probably more than average.

OP, of course there are many pitfalls to this plan - there are to almost any, and this is unconventional so will get people being judgey...

Think it through, talk it through, don't be romantic about it, and I would take the decision slowly.... but ignore the condemning posts - you have done nothing wrong.

I'm not judging her, I think the reality will not be as cosy for her as she hopes though.

The mother almost always bearing the brunt of the responsibilities, financial, practical, emotional.

And then, with the best will in the world, given the judgement that does exist, she risks devaluing herself in the dating world. Putting yourself out there as a mum of two kids with two different dads does not instantly win over a man who has his shit together.
I had two children (same dad) and a lot of men who are lookin g for a relationship think 'no don't need that' when they're just at the stage of deciding who to leave the house to go on a date with.

You could say ''fuck them!'' but then, maybe the OP will want to have a relationship herself at some point. And then it will make things harder. She'll have gone back to the drawing board with a younger child.

I would just focus on the child you have OP.

You will have the freedom to work, meet people, travel, enjoy life, fall in love, make new friends, take up new hobbies if you just stay on course.

Don't let hormones trick you in to having a baby to keep a friend happy. You're not rent a womb.

Op you're still so young. Focus on yourself, sort yourself out. Enjoy life! You had your first child young.

If you're still single in 5 years then think about it again.