To think a second lockdown is right?

[Plentyofshit]

I don’t think we are comparable to Sweden. A few months ago Europe thought Sweden had got it wrong, now people think they’ve got it right. We may change our minds again about Sweden in a few months time, what if their infection rate rises again?
Sweden are culturally and geographically very different to the UK. Sweden had no lockdown, but guidelines were in place and adhered to.

I think we are comparable to Spain. Their situation proves the lag effect, and their death rate is now rising.
This is just the start, where will we be next March?
For every 1 death, 20 more need hospitalisation. How will our NHS cope?
So should the priority be - the deaths/serious complications/NHS crisis for tens of thousands of people - or the damage to our jobs and economy.
Labour support a second lockdown.

@cbt944 Wow - thank you! I am attempting to form my own balanced opinion, and not just from one news source. I appreciated the poster from Spain, as the majority of news reports here state the death rate there is rising - and that we are likely to follow this trend. We heard a lot about Italy/France/Spain prior to our outbreak earlier this year. Now - not so much.

@Biancadelrioisback I’m so sorry- that’s heartbreaking. I also have a very close family treatment awaiting major surgery for cancer and will have months of recovery where she will need support. I don’t want a lockdown, I want guidelines to be followed.

It’s more about thinking it’s the ‘right’ thing to do. My personal circumstances scream ‘no’, but if it is the best thing for the country as a whole - I will support that.

Op I don’t think it is the best thing for the country. Economically it is too much

[quote Plentyofshit]@SoUtterlyGroundDown I do think it’s more than a bit of moaning, as exemplified by a shopper in Surrey yesterday who smashed bottles of wine on the floor when asked to follow a one way system. Everyone is now ‘up in arms’ over 10pm curfew. Curfews have been used in other countries too. I think everyone has lost respect for the government, so any announcement is met with furious backlash.[/quote]
This isn’t what I’m experiencing in my part of the country, or amongst my friends and family.

Actually the lack of respect for the government is right (they have done absolutely nothing to earn anyone’s respect as far as I can tell), but where I am people are quietly following the rules and getting on with things as best they can.

Looking back at the Spanish flu situation - the countries with the stricter lockdowns has economies that ultimately recovered faster/better. The UK would be in a much better situation if it’d had a proper lockdown to begin with. There’s no safe level of circulating virus that’s ok, especially without a proper tracing and testing system - it’ll continue to negatively impact on the economy. Half-hearted restrictions like the current ones will just mean that the whole situation drags on without any real prospect of safely going to work and school for a very long time.

Stop households mixing indoors, outside only 2; masks when leave house (with actual medical written exemption not to wear); laws to make offices wfh (not just at employer discretion - ie massively higher threshold to allow office working coupled by huge fine).

Why aren’t we doing any of the above? Won’t impact economy and seem like no brainers. We need to keep shops and schools open.

If I had any confidence in the statistical modelling, then I'd say yes to another lockdown.

I don't, so therefore wouldn't support it.

Spain had a much stricter initial lockdown than we did, but it hasn’t stopped a major second wave.
So I don’t see how a second lockdown will necessarily help, when The Beast may well just resurge with a vengeance once everybody’s out and about again.

The UK can't afford another national lockdown. Restrictions and local lockdowns will have to be it.
I truly believe the govt should have been enforcing universal maskwearing for all those above a certain age (say, 7 years) from the start (unless exempt) in all places outside of one's home unless eating/drinking in restaurants and other exemptions.
They also needed the continuous and consistent reinforcement of the social distancing and handwashing messages as these have fallen by the wayside.

Decent track and trace, self-isolating when symptomatic/positive/exposed, home working, will also help.

Stop households mixing indoors, outside only 2

Both these things would disproportionately impact women - I'd be ok with it though if they kept the family childcare exceptions and didn't count DC under 10/11.

Where is the evidence that Spain’s numbers are falling, apart from an anecdote from someone who lives there.

And by falling, what exactly does that mean? Falling back from tens of thousands to hundreds? Halving every few days? Going down rapidly?

The 50000 was a worst case scenario. Everyone knows that it’s not likely, but it could happen if people don’t follow the rules and social distance and use a bit of bloody common sense tbh.

Plenty of people even on here saying that they won’t adhere to track and trace, that they won’t give out their personal details. If I was running the system I would make restaurant bookings mandatory, with a text to confirm the booking, if you don’t confirm the text then you don’t get the booking, therefore it would be possible to know exactly who you are.

Sorry posted too soon. And if you give out a wrong number/use a mate’s number instead then you get a £10000 fine.

But people would then wine about it being an attack on their civil liberties.

Start charging for tests! Even if the cost is not fully covered
Hands down one of the stupidest suggestions I have ever seen!
Charge for them and I guarantee absolutely huge volumes of people with suspected Covid will not get tested and will no doubt go on to infect so many others.

The way I see it, the problem is that the things that keep the economy going (while mitigating the covid risk) are not the things people want to actually do. People want to be able to see their family and friends, have a day or an evening out together, but still work from home. Nobody wants a situation where you go out to work but can’t see your parents (and you’re stuck if they’re your childcare) or friends. Or go to the pub, but just for a set time and only with people from your household. That’s why we now have this jumble of rules that just about stops some businesses folding, just about stops people cracking up and just about (maybe) stops thousands dying but it isn’t ideal on any front. Nobody has an easy solution to all this.

I think ultimately we can only do what we think is best on an individual level. I’m a homebody anyway so I’m in a kind of self imposed lockdown. My job was already wfh (pre covid). Any family members I would want to see are hundreds of miles away and more scared of covid than I am! So even if I was prepared to see them, they wouldn’t want me going there. I already did all my grocery shopping etc online. Didn’t go to the gym or any classes. So it’s no big deal for me to just stay home. The chances of me catching it have to be much lower than someone out working and socialising. That’s the way I cope with all this and why my mental health is not affected. I just focus on me and don’t worry about what other people are or are not doing. Obviously not everyone has that luxury, many have no choice as to where they work etc. But outside of work if you think you should stay home then do so, if you don’t feel you can then don’t.

@AlternativePerspective
www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/spain/

No a second lockdown is not right. There is more to life (and death) than covid, and we need to get on with things to a reasonable extent, while following the rules that are already in place without whining and saying we are special because because because.