To think a second lockdown is right?

[Plentyofshit]

I don’t think we are comparable to Sweden. A few months ago Europe thought Sweden had got it wrong, now people think they’ve got it right. We may change our minds again about Sweden in a few months time, what if their infection rate rises again?
Sweden are culturally and geographically very different to the UK. Sweden had no lockdown, but guidelines were in place and adhered to.

I think we are comparable to Spain. Their situation proves the lag effect, and their death rate is now rising.
This is just the start, where will we be next March?
For every 1 death, 20 more need hospitalisation. How will our NHS cope?
So should the priority be - the deaths/serious complications/NHS crisis for tens of thousands of people - or the damage to our jobs and economy.
Labour support a second lockdown.

No

Again @QuentinInQuarantino interesting! Here there is a definite vibe of - Fuck Boris, Fuck the Rules. Yet - from what I see - it’s broadly the same as Europe. Similar pressures, similar guidelines. We are not working together as a country, and this could be our downfall. We tend to blame others for negative impact - rather than ‘what can I do to make this better’.

@Plentyofshit

Again *@QuentinInQuarantino* interesting! Here there is a definite vibe of - Fuck Boris, Fuck the Rules. Yet - from what I see - it’s broadly the same as Europe. Similar pressures, similar guidelines. We are not working together as a country, and this could be our downfall. We tend to blame others for negative impact - rather than ‘what can I do to make this better’.

Some people here are saying that. Some aren’t. Some people are following the rules, some aren’t. Some people object to wearing masks, most just get on with it. Same as in most other European countries, I’d hazard. I’m from Spain, my family still live there. They follow what’s going on here for my sake (and obviously we’re keen to be able to see each other at some point soon) but they’re generally too preoccupied with what’s going on in their own country to consider us a ‘laughing stock’.

Oh yes but I think there's a big difference because we can't fuck the rules because we have very efficient and strict police forces, and they have been able to reassign the traffic police and main police into general Covid enforcement (there are different forces for different things). In the UK the only option would be the army I think? Do you think people would respect the army more?

@QuentinInQuarantino I do believe it’s about enforcement! A sense of civil responsibility (this worked in Sweden) is gone.

Yes it wouldn't work here either!

The reason why they couldn’t go straight to another lockdown is because A, the economy wouldn’t cope with it, and B, if another lockdown doesn’t reduce case numbers then they would have no more restrictions to bring in.

By putting in some restrictions they can keep a careful eye on the case numbers. If they fail to come down or even increase they can then bring in other measures, banning household mixing, travel restrictions, closing pubs and schools if they have to. But there’s a long way to go between these two places and therefore is a lot more scope to control things if necessary.

I think an early lockdown will mean shorter period of restriction because we will have a lower peak of cases and fewer total cases. So that would be my preference.

Let's have a lockdown and more people can lose their jobs, the economy can be ruined even further and people's mental health will massively suffer.

A lot of people couldn't follow the first lockdown so they definitely won't for a second!

@QuentinInQuarantino Ideally, a sense of positivity and togetherness (Sweden) would work. We are utterly divisive.

We have a vacuous show here called ‘Love Island’. What troubles me is - someone from Love Island announcing the guidelines = people would listen. Government = no one listens.

Lockdown is the reason my grandad died last week.
He lived alone so no one saw the signs of the fast spreading cancer. Only symptom was some weight loss and feeling achy which he just thought was because he was old. By the time it was finally picked up, it was too late.
Now, a man who nearly made it to 100 and had an amazing life and a huge family died on his own having spent months in isolation. And we couldn't even raise a glass or gather for a wake or anything because we are in the north east.

Lockdown is fine for the fit and healthy people with a loving family unit, a bit boring but fine. It's absolute torture for others.

@NC4NW123

No lockdown!!!! Who the hell will pay for the NHS when we’ve all lost our jobs, our homes, riddled with debt and bad mental health.

This!

@Plentyofshit

We have a vacuous show here called ‘Love Island’. What troubles me is - someone from Love Island announcing the guidelines = people would listen. Government = no one listens.

Oh come on. Speak for yourself and the people you know, not all of us. I’ve never watched an episode of Love Island in my life. Everyone I know has quietly followed the restrictions. A bit of moaning, but moaning is allowed when things are shit. Why are people so insistent on making out that people in the U.K. are so much worse than everyone else? I’ve lived in many different countries and guess what? People are people the world over.

I would consider paying for a test with a quick turnaround. At the moment we have the situation where you (or your child) requires a test, wait a week to get one, wait another 3 days for the result, all requiring you to be off work, potentially unpaid...for a test that may well be negative.....and then have to pay for the privilege if doing that multiple times this autumn/winter...?

Lockdown does not have to mean that care for ill or elderly relatives stops. It does not have to mean medical appointments are cancelled - in fact it can meant it is more likely that medical clinics will keep open because there will be fewer patients in hospital and fewer staff off sick.

It does not have to mean that people don’t have the necessary things to live - shelter, food. But the government need to plan it and make a system that distributes rations, makes PPE, ensures children have access to laptops for working. If the govt does not do these things, then lockdown can be v damaging. But some of the problems can be mitigated by govt action.

The positive bits of lockdown are that it can help us get back to a more manageable number of cases quicker - like aus and nz. And there would be more local freedom sooner.

The thing with a hard lockdown like back in March is it really does nothing but press pause on the issue. It doesn't make anything go away. As we've seen and always knew, cases rise again once it's lifted. I understood the need initially, not to overwhelm health services but we now need to find a better solution and one that is more sustainable over a longer period, something that also takes into account the other issues like the economy and minimising the damage to that. When you really get down into it, those things are just as important as anything else, mass unemployment, poor mental health and a nation riddled with debt will do nothing for people's health and well being either, it's not just about putting money before people's health. We need money to keep moving so that we can retain jobs and livelihoods.

Kicking the ball further down the road so to speak, with lockdown after lockdown, is no good long term.

@blubberball

I'll have one. But this time, it's my turn to be furloughed 😁👍

Fuck yes me too!!

Agree with you Peeta

@SoUtterlyGroundDown I do think it’s more than a bit of moaning, as exemplified by a shopper in Surrey yesterday who smashed bottles of wine on the floor when asked to follow a one way system. Everyone is now ‘up in arms’ over 10pm curfew. Curfews have been used in other countries too. I think everyone has lost respect for the government, so any announcement is met with furious backlash.

Plentyofshit
Your experience and perception of the situation is not one I share nor anyone i know. Everyone i come across are following the rules and that applies to friends and their experience across the country. Obviously there are people that will do their own thing but I dont think they are the majority and the same will be true in other countries. Your posts regarding Spain illustrate that maybe your being sucked into media malipulations rather than what is actually happening in reality.

If I never hear 'Sweden' again, until Eurovision 2021, I will be very happy. Sweden Sweden Sweden! I agree, OP, it is a pointless comparison. It's a fantasy people have of this magic, painless solution...

In any case, a group of 200 scientists, doctors, and so on working in Sweden have banded together to object to the spin that has been put on Sweden's figures, and challenge the “unethical, unresearched and unsubstantiated reporting of the disastrous handling of the pandemic in Sweden”.

www.news.com.au/world/europe/coronavirus-sweden-200-doctors-scientists-challenge-swedens-official-version-of-events/news-story/ba031ff738ded42bc5e5d8de77bca11d

maybe your being sucked into media malipulations rather than what is actually happening in reality

No to lockdown, it didn't work last time. I want to keep my job and tbh I think the NHS needs to get back on top of helping other issues, things that have been delayed from the last one. It's all good shouting lockdown, but if your job is at risk or you are undergoing medical treatment that could stop, it's a different story.
The 50,000 figures yesterday were designed to scare people, it's not even following Spain or France's path, it's gone way over and other medical experts are questioning it. Maybe a lot of people are being suckered into media manipulation with the U.K. predictions too

Lockdown does not have to mean that care for ill or elderly relatives stops. It does not have to mean medical appointments are cancelled - in fact it can meant it is more likely that medical clinics will keep open because there will be fewer patients in hospital and fewer staff off sick.

Theoretically. in real life you can only get a stupid phone appointment, if that.

I'm not ready to commit to a lockdown yet. I still hope whatever brought cases down in Spain continues its downwards trend and happens here too. I'm being very cautious and definitely not mixing more than I have to, but I am at the same time hoping and wishing that we peak out and start declining, even if I don't have a clue why we would. There's lots we don't understand and I'll take a mystery decline if it's available.