To think that 70% should not be an A

[Arealmanithink]

Background: I'm American. Grading is different in the US. In the US, the scoring goes , 89-100% = A, 79-89% = B, 69-79% =C anything below 65% is failing. I don't think the school work is that different but I do think that the standards are lower in the UK. I'm amazed.

I'm sure I remember being told that 80% at uni is pretty much publishable

I remember being so thrilled when I got at 69% at masters level (my previous paper was 42% not sure why I got such different results)

I watched a You-Tube video recently talking about the same thing and the person said he'd gone to school then did a degree in the states before coming to the UK to get a masters - and the change in the way of marking was huge (BTW he then sat a higher Maths GCSE - and he said that was things he would have done much later on at degree rather than 15/16)

The comments about the differences in marking would explain why ds, currently studying PIR at Aberdeen Uni and doing very well (averaging a 1st/Upper 2nd) in all his subjects (Scottish Uni, so a broad base for the first 2 years ) was discouraged when looking at possible American Unis at which to study for a semester/a year . He thought his very good average was too low

As it is, for other reasons, he decided not to proceed - but he should bear that in mind when looking at post grad, as he's planning on doing a Masters or a PhD and his particular areas of interest are American politics and Human Rights.

From what I've heard, people coming to university in the UK from elsewhere in Europe are well ahead of students here.

American exams are all multiple choice aren’t they? It’s not really comparable tbh

Wishfor.. I agree.. Thanks for making me snort coffee out my nose..

When I did my BA they didn't even bother with numerical marks - the range was from a straight alpha through alpha (-), alpha - alpha/beta, beta/alpha etc etc. You needed 5 leading alphas to get a first (plus a further leading alpha to compensate for a leading gamma if any). It seemed a bizzarre system (especially as a friend got alpha/beta from one examiner and beta/gamma on the same paper from the second examiner....) but actually these days I'm starting to think it was a better system - ie marking from an outstanding (although occasionally achieved) first performance on a paper throught the levels of good first, solid first, probably a first, border line etc etc for each grade category. The point is that you can compare degree classifications between institutions much more clearly than percentages. When I did my MA I was told that they basically marked out of 80 and no one in the history of the course had ever got more so please not to ask them what happened to the 20% of marks you lost.

It seems a bit mad to me that in one institution 79% is the most amazing first and in another it is a C...

One of my lovely American friends on a closed board I was on used to post her undergrad literature essays for comment by peers as obviously she was late to her degree. I was frankly shocked at the standard; whilst she could write, the essays were super short, her opinions were not closely linked to the text or the wider context of the novel in the way I had been expected to produce, nor referenced properly. I would have ranked it decent GCSE standard. Nevertheless she was doing fine and passed her degree and went on to a master's.

@superram

Surely it depends on how hard the test is? Using a bell curve is much better than rigid arbitrary boundaries. You’re wrong.

Agreed If the test is easier one year you'd have a huge proportion of higher grades. Not fair on other cohorts who had a harder paper. And almost impossible to completely standardise the level of difficulty.

What school system are you discussing, OP?

Degree level, A-Level or GCSEs?

DD is at a U.K. university. They give marks as both U.K. degree classifications and US GPA.

70-74% U.K. degree mark is considered equivalent to a USA 4.0 grade average.

@Tootletum drunk is fine - go any wine to share?

I’m finding this thread fascinating! I like comparing educational systems.

@legalalien - we're also from NZ (no shit, hey?! Given the username) and yes, it's quite an adjustment from there, to here, isn't it?! It's fierce! It was really hard for my eldest, especially, who got plummeted into the system in year 10. . .

At university level, students from the US are at the very least a whole academic year behind. But even at high school level, they are behind. A friend teaches at an international school in Europe with quite a few Americans. They are very behind their European counterparts, and those who have been home educated are much, much worse.

In the op you immediately derided our system by saying you considered it of a lower standard!

Of course that's going to put people on the defensive.

You compounded that by clearly not understanding how our system works and saying a bell curve system makes more sense - why?! It DOESN'T make sense because those students' grades are awarded based on a comparison to other students ONLY within that class, when they leave school/uni other educational establishments and employers want to know how they compare to ALL other applicants. If a student happens to be in a class with a load of other dunces their grade is going to be falsely inflated, conversely if they're an average student in a class full of geniuses it will be falsely deflated putting them at a disadvantage. Surely all students passing through an education system should be graded according to their actual achievement, not whether they were worse or better than their fellow students in a particular class in a particular establishment

Having learned with and tutored USA students ime the education they received was pretty poor.

As a child (army brat) we sometimes had fellow pupils who's fathers were over here on secondments etc and they very rarely could cope with being in class deemed to match age and were almost always a year below sometimes 2.

I had one experience with one who was on my English undergrad course with me who didn't correctly know the word classes! Struggled even with American spellings of longer words and really struggled with writing an argument. He dropped out before the semester was through! Perhaps he and his parents also thought an English uni would be "easier"? I don't know.

To my mind he'd have struggled to pass gcse English to be honest.

I also have family in USA, my blood relative who went through Scots education system despaired at times at the nonsense her kids came out with that they'd been taught at school (and she did check with the teachers that the kids hadn't misunderstood) and I'm not talking cultural things like Uk history where that can happen but maths and science FACTS that are worldwide. And this was a highly lauded school where they were.

One child went on to uni and relative felt that also wasn't as high a standard as here, child still struggled anyway and dropped out.

You can't even compare across the uk..the scottish exams are more academic than the English exams

Yep! I mostly went through the English system myself, dd has been through the Scots system which imo is at least a year ahead of the English.

oofsplat that's because Americans have to do 4 year Uni before Med/Law school. It;s considered a post grad degree and they usually get a DR/Masters degree for it. oh good grief! Do you really think we don't know that? Do you think our drs and lawyers are less qualified/have studied less than yours?

FYI undergraduate degrees in Scotland tend to be 4 years too

Conversely the non Uk EU students on my English course for temporary overseas experience thought it was a piece of piss! So definitely not just thinking Uk is the best!

The Swedish, Dutch and German students in particular noticed a huge difference in standards.

@bananaskinsnomnom I've discovered the wine society's corsican rose. Very similar to provençal but far less pricy! Also totally love the Guigal côtés du Rhône from majestic, but the 2016 is a bit too old now. Or... Errr... After a few glasses I'll drink any old crap someone brought for a party. Although probably draw the line at the Hardys stamp shiraz. Which I thought was great when I was 22 because it cost £5....

I'm gobsmacked by that! I recall 40+ years ago) being told that to get an 'A" grade, you needed to score more than 90%! How times have changed.

@Arealmanithink

oofsplat that's because Americans have to do 4 year Uni before Med/Law school. It;s considered a post grad degree and they usually get a DR/Masters degree for it.

I'm well aware.

American system is notorious for being easier (much easier) than the British system -and I have been a student of each.

American system was so much easier that when we moved out to the US -myself and all my siblings were up a year for school -and we could have moved up two years.

A degree from a US university is not necessarily comparable with a degree from a UK university.
Likewise a 1st class degree from Cambridge University is not the same as a 1st class degree from the University of "I've made up a name as I don't want to offend anyone".

Likewise I have an American (was going to write friend but he's an ex) who has a degree. He turned up and completed the modules over 7 years and got a degree. Honestly -it is "worthless" a piece of paper -he has little academic ability -but he did turn up for the course.

I agree that people are being very defensive here - the US education system is far from perfect but nor is the British. The older I get the more bizarre it seems to be that we force specialisation so early. So yes, of course the US exchange students in my second year history class knew less history than the British students, because they'd just spent a lot less time doing history, but they had a much broader education because they hadn't stopped doing all but three or four subjects at 16 and then all but one at 18.

I recall thinking that Rory Gilmore’s test on Shakespeare at the highly academic Chilton which was all about dates of birth and numbers of sonnets etc was totally bonkers! This would be equivalent to a level or higher?!?

I’m particular good at recall multiple choice so I’m sure I would’ve been Valedictorian at an American high school (not actually sure what that means either!)

I grew up in Australia, and like the NZers who've posted I've had to adjust my expectations of my children's marks in the UK. I'd say our system was somewhere between the US and the UK in many respects. I remember being a bit puzzled as to why you would go to the US for postgrad (several fellow students on my first degree) when it was going to start by duplicating the last two years of our (4 years) undergrad degrees, before getting onto the 3 yr research and thesis bit. The difference in standard was highlighted by the fact that they absolutely aced whatever the US tests they needed to sit to go there.

Back in the 60s, my mother was working in personnel management in England. The problem of the US / UK discrepancy was a big issue - they would employ someone from the US with a degree at a certain level on account of his "qualifications" only to find they were functioning at a lower level than local school leavers (with A levels). Mind you her post-grad qualification still entitled her to a lower pay rate, as a woman, than those 18 yr old school leavers she was supposed to be managing ...

That was if you did the HIGHER paper

But hey - that doesn't stop comments like that

Sorry! It's so long ago I totally forgot that part!

When we moved to the United States my sister and I were both put up a school year because the work we had covered and the level achieved was higher than what they were doing there. Indeed you get college credit in the US for A levels that are above a grade C! This shows that first year college in the US is not even that high a grade A level!

In UK universities it is difficult to get above 80% in many subjects, impossible in others. I guess in Maths and quantifiable stuff it is possible to get 100% but if you are doing Arts or Humanities, 70% is more like 95% because no one ever really gets above 80%. Quite ridiculous really.

Afaik it only takes 40% to get a 3rd class degree.

In my degree course you didn’t do honours, the extra year was a year out placement. I could have passed that degree with 40% and got the same end qualification as someone who got 90%.