To think that 70% should not be an A

[Arealmanithink]

Background: I'm American. Grading is different in the US. In the US, the scoring goes , 89-100% = A, 79-89% = B, 69-79% =C anything below 65% is failing. I don't think the school work is that different but I do think that the standards are lower in the UK. I'm amazed.

I'd only done lab reports/tutorial questions where it was possible to get high marks in my first term. I still remember going to the first essay feedback session in the spring and asking what I'd have to have done to improve my mark (74%), and the surprised look the lecturer gave me before explaining it was the highest mark she'd given.

I think the marking scales are just labelled very differently!

@Arealmanithink

Background: I'm American. Grading is different in the US. In the US, the scoring goes , 89-100% = A, 79-89% = B, 69-79% =C anything below 65% is failing. I don't think the school work is that different but I do think that the standards are lower in the UK. I'm amazed.

The grading where you are in the US is like that. It's not universal. In my son's school, they graded 90%-100% was an A, 80%-89% was a B, etc. And, they were in advanced classes, that had different grading scales than that.

If you an American you must know that we don't have any one way of doing things. It varies from school district to school district.

Meant in jest, OP, but based on the rigour of the analysis underpinning your post, your comparison of US and (presumably) UK education grading might not be entirely sound.

Regarding grading, one interesting change in UK grade boundaries related to standardisation, for example the decision between 1963 and 1987 for a-levels that a fixed 10% per cent only could get grade A, 15% a B and so on. Criteria referencing now meant 25% got an a (depending on the subject).

Ooops, should be sons' and you're I can't even blame my phone, that was my dumb fat fingers.

@PinkLegoBrick

YABU. Standards are not lower in UK.

Yeah right. I'll have some of what you've been drinking.

@Arealmanithink

Sounds like they're not equivalent.. I'll give my kids a break. Thanks all! I've been here 15 yrs and only now is it coming to light.. Wow..

Its how some exams are structured as well.

Lets look at higher tier GCSE maths, sometimes a C grade can be around 30%. However if you look at the paper only a small proportion of question are actually C grade questions.

Sometimes people will be silly and post an easy question from a foundation GCSE maths exam, they fail to realise that it is a level one question, being a question designed to identify those performing at around an E.

Years ago I did I levels with WJEC and the top 10% got an A , the next 20% a B and so on . The year I did maths the A was 90%.

Do you mean GCSE grades or A-level? GCSEs are given numbered grades now (9 is highest). They originally were A was the highest, F lowest, U ungraded (so F didn't mean 'fail'). Then over the years A was added then A* . So for the last few years A was the third highest grade. There were 2 more grades above it.

I am, however, amused by how defensive the brits are about the education system. I asked an innocent question.. To honestly get an answer, and it went a bit OTT. FatherBuzz, thanks for your input. You sounded the most rational!

At school level the criteria are completely different.

If you're referring to the 70% for a 1st at uni then that's an entirely different system. I took a science subject and I can tell you the people in my class who were literally brilliant and went on to become professors would only have achieved around 80%. The grading is INCREDIBLY high.

I'm British but teach at a university in the US some semesters, and the gap between high school and university is vast. Too much expectation of multiple choice, and written/analytical work isn't up to par. (I did my undergrad and PhD at US institutions, so not anti-American education.)

I think the systems just prioritise different things: there is definitely more desire to memorise things in the US. However, I've never seen a 70% equate to an A in the UK, and have never curved down to a 70 being an A in any of my classes in the US though I know some colleagues who have gone as low as a 40 in some STEM fields.

I do agree good US universities are a better option, because it's not just churning out people with no degree personalisation - but I think the approach to secondary education in the UK is ironically better preparation for that.

@Arealmanithink how old are your children?

To be honest these things wouldn’t come to light because, until your child hits year 9 or 10, the test and exam results basically don’t count (and SATS are levels that no one except teachers really understand anyway).

I’m finding this interesting. I lived in the US for two years (after uni) but didn’t really encounter the school system - or ever understand it! Are all the separate High School grades averaged out into the High School Diploma? (Is that the GED?) or do the students have separate grades for each subject like we do?

As pp have explained, it’s not comparable. Take degrees - to get the highest classification you need 70% but most people don’t get that score as it’s incredibly difficult.

Most people fall between 60-69% and get a 2:1 and are chuffed to bits with their score. This is true for top University’s too (Russell Group - comparable to your Ivy League)

There is absolutely no way that students who get 90% etc in the US, would get anywhere near that here! The grading systems aren’t comparable like for like and you’ve placed far too much value on the percentage.

It’s more likely that 90-100% in the US is equal to 70-80% at the most.

Did you think we’re just all ‘thick’?!

Personally I think the English school system is horrible and far to intense for a lot of children. I wouldn't get defensive about it because I think it sucks.

For maths - there are 2 Types of paper:

Higher - from a D to A* (Or 4 - 9)

It's a harder paper - so the questions are harder. But you could get a C with about 20%. But if you are good, then you should be getting more than a C with this paper - I don't know how many people who took Higher got a 4 or a 5. You can get an A with about 70%. ON A HARD PAPER

Then there is the Foundation paper. Targeted at lower grades (up to a C (or a 5). You need about 70% to get a 5. Or 50% to get a 4.

That does not stop the Daily Mail saying you need 20% to get a 4. Which is massive spin on the whole thing - because most people who get a 4 are likely to have done the Foundation paper.

The world is full of Americans saying “I can’t believe it! Things outside America aren’t done in the American way!”

Yawn. No standards aren’t lower in the UK obviously, but even if they were, why go on a UK website and whine about it? Rude.

At GCSE the grading all changed to (roughly):
90%+ = 9
80% = 8
70% = 7

Are you happier now? Most high-achieving (what you might call an 'A'-grade student will only be happy with a 9 now - so arguably our grading at GCSE is exceptionally and hard and equivalent to the US now.
Unfortunately it has come at a mental health cost to those students at the top.

A levels are heading in a similar direction. High-achieving students are aiming for A* not A.

It concerns me, on the basis of your daft post, that you are responsible for grading papers!

@Arealmanithink

I am, however, amused by how defensive the brits are about the education system. I asked an innocent question.. To honestly get an answer, and it went a bit OTT. FatherBuzz, thanks for your input. You sounded the most rational!

OP

You didn’t just ask a question though, did you?

* I don't think the school work is that different but I do think that the standards are lower in the UK. I'm amazed.*

This has to be one of the worse thought-out premises for a thread that I have ever seen on MN.

I think the very fact you have been given responsibility for grading some papers in the US speaks volumes about standard

@Sparklfairy

When I did GCSE's (15+ years ago), 17% was a C grade in Maths

That was if you did the HIGHER paper - aimed at people who would be getting B,A and A*

If you took the FOUNDATION paper, you needed about 70% to get a C

But hey - that doesn't stop comments like that

US exams are certainly not all mutiple choice. your GPA is made up of essays, tests, quizes, class participation, projects, end of year exams. The SAT is mutiple choice but that is not a high school administered test and many colleges are making it optional now. it is completely different from the UK system. More comparable to the Irish system in some ways except it has no leaving cert equivalent.

Do you mean school or university?

There is no set percentage for grades at school. The grades for exams are determined using a bell curve to reflect that it is impossible to set an exam of equal difficulty every year, as PPs have said.

If you mean university, we don't use grades to classify degrees. If you are referring to the traditional university marking system where a first class degree is 70% or above, it's just a different marking system. Getting greater than 75% is almost unheard of.

To put it into perspective, the marking scheme for the MA in journalism my DC is taking, 70% is the grade given for work of a professional standard that could be published without any changes or corrections. 100% would be Pulitzer Prize quality.